17
   

A God That Makes Sense?

 
 
Glennn
 
  2  
Reply Sun 20 Sep, 2015 10:30 am
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
With absolute proof, there would only be one choice that makes sense.

Yes, but the question is not whether or not there is only one choice that makes sense, or whether or not your choice allows you to maintain your integrity. The question is whether or not choosing irrationally affects your free will. As I have already pointed out, making an illogical choice has no bearing on the fact that it was a freewill choice.
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Reply Sun 20 Sep, 2015 11:27 am
@Glennn,
Quote:
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
"With absolute proof, there would only be one choice that makes sense."

Yes, but the question is not whether or not there is only one choice that makes sense, or whether or not your choice allows you to maintain your integrity. The question is whether or not choosing irrationally affects your free will. As I have already pointed out, making an illogical choice has no bearing on the fact that it was a freewill choice.

So you you would have me be forced into a choice between free will and integrity? Some free will choice that is.

Perhaps you don't value integrity all that much...
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Sep, 2015 11:58 am
@Leadfoot,
I never said anything about forcing anyone to choose between free will and integrity. If you make a choice to deny what is obvious, you made a freewill choice to do so, despite your lack of intellectual integrity. Integrity has nothing to do with freewill, though you appear to be trying to conflate the two.
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Reply Sun 20 Sep, 2015 03:39 pm
@Glennn,
If you can't see the conflict in your position by now, we're done here Glennn. The discussion was enlightening in its own way. Thanks for the data point.
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Sep, 2015 04:12 pm
@Leadfoot,
There is no conflict in my position regarding the definition of freewill in the context of this thread. You described a situation (absolute proof of God) whereby one's will might be altered, but in no way did you explain how that situation would cause one's will to not be free. I even pointed out for you that you were conflating freewill with integrity when no such relationship exists.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Sep, 2015 05:30 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:

Leadfoot wrote:

You will have to specify the abiogenesis experiment you refer to if I am to give an opinion.


http://www.pnas.org/content/112/3/657.abstract

http://phys.org/news/2015-03-chemists-riddle-life-began-earth.html#ajTabs
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Sep, 2015 05:39 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

...the decision (about which of these alternatives is true) is left open (not predetermined by hard evidence) to all (believers, atheists and those who have not or cannot decide on the basis of evidence)."


People believe various things; what they believe does not affect the way things are outside their minds, as far as I can tell. You don't get to decide whether or not the evidence points to a creator deity. It either does or it doesn't, and you can either understand it or fail to and spend your time in denialism. IOW, you're either deluded or you're not. If you think you see a supernatural god behind the standard cosmological model when the vastly overwhelming majority of scientists see no such thing, guess what bit of evidence points to.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Sep, 2015 06:29 pm
@FBM,
Quote:
People believe various things; what they believe does not affect the way things are outside their minds, as far as I can tell.

That's because under the current conditions you are free to do that. If you knew there was a God judging your very thoughts... ?

Quote:
You don't get to decide whether or not the evidence points to a creator deity.


Yeah! You FINALLY get it! EVERYBODY gets to have perfect free will !!
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Sep, 2015 06:47 pm
@FBM,

That scenario was addressed in the ID thread. I said I was willing to stipulate that all the amino acids and other building blocks were available for RNA/DNA but required intelligence to assemble them in a functional sequence.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Sep, 2015 06:58 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
People believe various things; what they believe does not affect the way things are outside their minds, as far as I can tell.


That's because under the current conditions you are free to do that. If you knew there was a God judging your very thoughts... ?


If, if, if. If I knew that there was not a god judging my very thoughts. If I knew that there was a magical pink unicorn judging my very thoughts. Blah blah blah. Hypotheticals are manifold in speculative metaphysics, and therefore cheap and all but worthless.

Quote:
You don't get to decide whether or not the evidence points to a creator deity.


Yeah! You FINALLY get it! EVERYBODY gets to have perfect free will !!

[/quote]

How the **** did you arrive at that conclusion? I'd be interested in seeing the tangled web of thoughts that led to that.

You bring up free will, then tell me to stop talking about it, then bring it up again. Make up your mind.

0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Sep, 2015 07:00 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:


That scenario was addressed in the ID thread. I said I was willing to stipulate that all the amino acids and other building blocks were available for RNA/DNA but required intelligence to assemble them in a functional sequence.


Now all you need to do is provide something convincing regarding your claim. Scientists don't see a god or a need for one behind the data. What's your special claim to insight that has evaded all those scientists? Divine revelation?
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Sep, 2015 07:47 pm
@FBM,
Quote:
What's your special claim to insight that has evaded all those scientists? Divine revelation?

That is a good question. I ask myself that every day.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Sep, 2015 07:51 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
What's your special claim to insight that has evaded all those scientists? Divine revelation?

That is a good question. I ask myself that every day.


So that's all it is. You're convinced that you've got better understanding of the universe than many, many thousands of science Ph.D's, and all you've got is a hunch that you're right. OK. Forgive me if I hesitate to join you in that world.

I don't think there's anything substantive to be gained by either of us from continuing this exchange. Thanks for your patience.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Sep, 2015 09:43 pm
@FBM,
Thank you, I thought it was very productive.
0 Replies
 
 

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