Death Penalty Drugs

Substitute revenge for sadism. Still an ugly concept.

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
A treatment of Propofol and a drug that kills instantly (there are such drugs) should eliminate any of the sadism involved.

Wouldn't that work?

I have a question for you Frank.

If your proposed system of execution were to be adopted would you witness an execution?

I would. Reluctantly...probably very reluctantly. But I would.

Don't get me wrong, Izzy, I still disapprove of capital punishment, but I just think lifetime incarceration is too cruel to be used. If we could do something like isolation on an island (or something of that sort) I would be okay with that. But life in prison with no opportunity for release seems more wrong (or more cruel) than execution to me.

It is not going to change, I realize that and have come to terms with it.

But I also doubt that the present way of dealing with serious, violent crime (capital punishment or lifetime in prison) is going to significantly impact on such crime.

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

Substitute revenge for sadism. Still an ugly concept.

Agreed.

Keeping the unrelentingly violent out of society for the protection of society...makes sense. How to do it with the dignity we all owe humanity is the issue. Capital punishment and lifetime in prison both do the job. Neither, in my opinion, is NOT cruel. Both are.

I guess what I am arguing is that those who oppose capital punishment because of adherence to a code of "no cruel and unusual punishment"...have to take into consideration that the alternative "life in prison without the chance of parole" is no less cruel. (In my opinion.)

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@edgarblythe,

I also think there's a certain amount of scapegoating here, too.

People who believe there entire lives are ruined by forces they can't put their finger on get to take it out on the ultimate outsider - death row inmates. I feel that deep inside there is no real concern about guilt or innocence, almost as if gawd put prisoners there for a reason - guilty or innocent.

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Capital punishment is much like war. Suffered by the poor to the benefit of the wealthy.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

bobsal u1553115 wrote:

The "sadistic business" is the base of the whole enterprise. Take sadism out of execution and they'd lose all interest in state sanctioned murder.

Same question (the one for Izzy above) for you, Bobsal.

As for the sadistic aspect, I have a precancerous condition of my throat that has to be inspected every 6 - 12 months...for which I need an endoscopy. Propofol is the anesthetic used...and is a delight. When under proporol, the doctor could do surgery on my dick using a chainsaw...and I would not feel a thing.

I hate life sentences without Parole even more then I hate the death sentence, I refer to it as the chickenshit death sentence. It's for those conservatives who can't stomach the act, but want the result.

If purely death is the goal, why do they to stop and try to 'save' suicides on death row? There's a lot of sadism involved with the death penalty itself as well as the "process" itself from the arrest on.

Very few prisoners are not capable of ever reforming.

A treatment of Propofol and a drug that kills instantly (there are such drugs) should eliminate any of the sadism involved.

Wouldn't that work?

NO. It's sadistic and of murderous intent no matter what method id used.

Life without parole is what I call the chickenshit death penalty. It's for those who don't want blood on their hands. But it's still a death sentence. It allows for no rehabilitation or change of heart.

Didn't we use to call it a "Department of Corrections"? The death penalty and life without parole don't give any allowance for corrections. There is no opportunity for the reward of penance, the word penitentiary comes from.

The people who support this also support extrajudicial punishments, too, like prison assaults. I do not want prisoners meting out "justice" in my name any more that I want the State murdering in my name.

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I often recall a grinning Texas Governor GW Bush mocking a prisoner scheduled for imminent execution. It did not hurt him in the polls and he went on to claim the presidency. But I digress.

A life without parole sentence does more than skirt the death penalty. It removes the finality of mistaken conviction. There are entirely too many convictions based on false testimony, withholding of evidence or pure spite, particularly spite for ethnic reasons.

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Before my bladder was removed because of cancer four years ago, I had regular procedures done to remove tumors inside of it. This was done by strapping me into a device to hold me completely still, intubing me for oxygen, and then paralyzing me. The surgery was done with a cable the width of a little finger inserted through my penis. It provided a light, flushing water, a laser scalpel, a mini spinning blade to liquidize the tumor and suction to remove it.

The drugs were great. The recovery is not, they also put BCG (a live TB solution in. This attaches itself to the tumor and the body's immune system goes after the cancer. After three of these, it became apparent that the BCG was working for me. BCG scars the the lining of the bladder and it is not pleasant.

What does this have to do with capital punishment by pleasant drugging? The difference is who's pain are they relieving? The prisoners or the executioners.

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

I often recall a grinning Texas Governor GW Bush mocking a prisoner scheduled for imminent execution. It did not hurt him in the polls and he went on to claim the presidency. But I digress.

A life without parole sentence does more than skirt the death penalty. It removes the finality of mistaken conviction. There are entirely too many convictions based on false testimony, withholding of evidence or pure spite, particularly spite for ethnic reasons.

The only problem is: that innocence is not an allowed basis for appeal. That fighting the death penalty is more "sexy" than fighting a life sentence without parole. And yet the same thing happens in both circumstances: an over charged, over sentenced, possibly innocent person dies unfairly in prison. Let alone that there is a strong political influence in a lot of Death sentencing, from politicians who run on it, prosecutors who want that 'tough on crime" credential in case they run for Congress, Judges who want to keep an elected bench seat. We won't talk about the circuses outside where some people celebrate and cheer like fish mongers in delight with each execution.

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If all they want is quick death, the guillotine was very quick. So was the ax. The guillotine was never known to fail or prolong the event that I recall reading about. Plus it provided great entertainment to the public. Now that I consider it, the firing squad is also quick. Why all the ineffective drugs when a real man's method is available.

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@edgarblythe,

Require witnessing one for voter registration. If we're going to vote for it, we need to get involved in it at least as a witness. There's a symbolic reason why it's done in the dark of night, in an isolated secure building with only a limited 'witnessing'. It's because it's a shameful process.

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@bobsal u1553115,

Also, last meals can be expensive, given the rising cost of groceries.

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@Frank Apisa,

The total prison population in the UK is 95526, of that just over 70 people ard lockrd up for life with no chance of parole.

It's a very tiny amount, and these are the very worst.

I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with prison conditions, overcrowding and over use of custodial sentences.

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@Frank Apisa,

What's the difference between an island and a prison?

It could be something like Lord of the Flies.

Prison conditions need to be improved, thosd very few whole lifers can reflect on what they've done.

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@edgarblythe,

That's what happened here in Texas. They now get whatever is on the steam table in the chow hall. This was not cost savings, it was mean spirited and cruel. Here's your baloney sandwich, can you roll up your sleeve for me?

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@bobsal u1553115,

I was unaware they had cut the last meal requests.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

What's the difference between an island and a prison?

Lots of things. A person in prison is actually a person in a cell...with limited time ourside that cell.

On an island, the person could be outside always.

Quote:

It could be something like Lord of the Flies.

It could be...but does not necessarily have to be.

Quote:

Prison conditions need to be improved, thosd very few whole lifers can reflect on what they've done.

Okay, I agree.

But the thought of people living out a life in prison just seems unnecessarily cruel to me. I understand that many others may disagree.

Fine.

Frankly, I think the notion of sentences of over, say, 10 years are too long. If the person can be rehabilitated, it should be able to happen in less than 10 years. If they cannot be rehabilitated in that time...well, execution.

I appreciate the fact that many people, perhaps most people, consider this barbaric. I am not barbaric, but to those people, I guess I will have to seem to be very barbaric.

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In the US the justice system is a mockery. If one is rich enough the penalties when applied at all are mostly a slap on the wrist. The constitution still allows for slavery and that is what many prisoners are subjected to. When Kamala was working in California she made inmates serve beyond sentences because it is a lucrative process. Non violent offenders make up the bulk of the system.

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The rich can pursue practices that can kill hundreds of people and escape harsh penalties. A poor person can commit a crime that leads to the death penalty. And we can argue about the most humane way to kill them.

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

I was unaware they had cut the last meal requests.

Yes. One inmate ordered enough food to feed a bunch still on death row. This offended the sensibilities of some vindictive SOB GOP MAGAts. And the went to the GOP leg, got it passed amd Abbott signed off like the grinning monkey he is.

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