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Are Valerie Plame and Joe Wilson partisan cons?

 
 
Brand X
 
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 12:31 pm
Valerie helped send Joe to investigate Iraq's seeking uranium from Niger, Joe then distorts the report to derail the Iraq invasion justification.

.....and other assorted backpedalling...


Quote:
Of 'Lies' and WMD
The Senate vindicates President Bush and exposes Joe Wilson as a partisan fraud.

Monday, July 12, 2004 12:01 a.m. EDT

"The Committee did not find any evidence that Administration officials attempted to coerce, influence or pressure analysts to change their judgments related to Iraq's weapons of mass destruction capabilities."

So reads Conclusion 83 of the Senate Intelligence Committee's report on prewar intelligence on Iraq. The Committee likewise found no evidence of pressure to link Iraq to al Qaeda. So it appears that some of the claims about WMD used by the Bush Administration and others to argue for war in Iraq were mistaken because they were based on erroneous information provided by the CIA.

A few apologies would seem to be in order. Allegations of lying or misleading the nation to war are about the most serious charge that can be leveled against a President. But according to this unanimous study, signed by Jay Rockefeller and seven other Democrats, those frequent charges from prominent Democrats and the media are without merit.

Or to put it more directly, if President Bush was "lying" about WMD, then so was Mr. Rockefeller when he relied on CIA evidence to claim in October 2002 that Saddam Hussein's weapons "pose a very real threat to America." Also lying at the time were John Kerry, John Edwards, Bill and Hillary Clinton, and so on. Yet Mr. Rockefeller is still suggesting on the talk shows, based on nothing but inference and innuendo, that there was undue political Bush "pressure" on CIA analysts.

The West Virginia Democrat also asserted on Friday that Undersecretary of Defense Douglas Feith has been running a rogue intelligence operation that is "not lawful." Mr. Feith's shop has spent more than 1,800 hours responding to queries from the Senate and has submitted thousands of pages of documents--none of which supports such a charge. Shouldn't even hyper-partisan Senators have to meet some minimum standard of honesty?

In fact, the report shows that one of the first allegations of false intelligence was itself a distortion: Mr. Bush's allegedly misleading claim in the 2003 State of the Union address that Iraq had been seeking uranium ore from Africa. The Senate report notes that Presidential accuser and former CIA consultant Joe Wilson returned from his trip to Africa with no information that cast serious doubt on such a claim; and that, contrary to Mr. Wilson's public claims, his wife (a CIA employee) was involved in helping arrange his mission.

"When coordinating the State of the Union, no Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) analysts or officials told the National Security Council (NSC) to remove the '16 words' or that there were concerns about the credibility of the Iraq-Niger Uranium reporting," the report says. In short, Joe Wilson is a partisan fraud whose trip disproved nothing, and what CIA doubts there were on Niger weren't shared with the White House.

The broader CIA failure on Iraq's WMD is troubling, though it is important to keep in mind that this was a global failure. Every serious intelligence service thought Saddam still had WMD, and the same consensus existed across the entire U.S. intelligence community. One very alarming explanation, says the report, is that the CIA had "no [human] sources collecting against weapons of mass destruction in Iraq after 1998." That's right. Not one source.

When asked why not, a CIA officer replied "because it's very hard to sustain." The report's rather obvious answer is that spying "should be within the norm of the CIA's activities and capabilities," and some blame for this human intelligence failure has to fall on recently departed Director George Tenet and his predecessor, John Deutch.

The Senate report blames these CIA failures not just on management but also on "a risk averse corporate culture." This sounds right, and Acting Director John McLaughlin's rejection of this criticism on Friday is all the more reason for Mr. Bush to name a real replacement. Richard Armitage has been mentioned for the job, but the Deputy Secretary of State has been consistently wrong about Iran, which will be a principal threat going forward, and his and Colin Powell's philosophy at the State Department has been to let the bureaucrats run the place. We can think of better choices.

One real danger now is that the intelligence community will react to this Iraq criticism by taking even fewer risks, or by underestimating future threats as it has so often in the past. (The failure to detect that Saddam was within a year of having a nuclear bomb prior to the 1991 Gulf War is a prime example.) The process of developing "national intelligence estimates," or NIEs, will only reinforce this sense of internal, lowest-common-denominator, conformity. If the Senate is looking for a place to recommend long-term reform, dispensing with NIEs would be a good place to start.
Above all, it's important to remember that the Senate report does not claim that the overall assessment of Iraq as a threat was mistaken. U.N. Resolution 1441 gave Saddam ample opportunity to come clean about his weapons, but he refused. The reports from David Kay and his WMD task force have since shown that Saddam violated 1441 in multiple ways.

Saddam retained a "just-in-time" capability to make WMD, even if he destroyed, hid or removed the "stockpiles" that the CIA believed he had. It's fanciful to think, especially in light of the Oil for Food scandal, that U.N.-led containment was a realistic option for another 12 years, or that once containment ended Saddam wouldn't have expanded his weapons capacity very quickly. The Senate report makes clear we need a better CIA, not that we should have left in power a homicidal, WMD-using dictator.


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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 12:35 pm
Alert the tin foil hat brigade. They're gonna want to know about this one.

I'll only bite on one line:

Quote:
Also lying at the time were John Kerry, John Edwards, Bill and Hillary Clinton, and so on.


As has been said many times, Senators do not have the oversight of the Alphabet Agencies the way the executive branch does.... this really is a tired argument, man.


Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 12:44 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Alert the tin foil hat brigade. They're gonna want to know about this one.

I'll only bite on one line:

Quote:
Also lying at the time were John Kerry, John Edwards, Bill and Hillary Clinton, and so on.


As has been said many times, Senators do not have the oversight of the Alphabet Agencies the way the executive branch does.... this really is a tired argument, man.


Cycloptichorn


So,I take it you agree with the rest of the article?
Or,are you attacking it because it disagrees with your preconcieved ideas?
Isnt that what you accuse the right of doing?
BTW,The various intelligence services report DIRECTLY to Congress,thats why we have the house and senate oversight committees.The President does not control them.
0 Replies
 
Redheat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 12:47 pm
Laughing Laughing Laughing

ahahahahahaha

Opinion Journal!
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 12:50 pm
Quote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Alert the tin foil hat brigade. They're gonna want to know about this one.

I'll only bite on one line:

Quote:
Also lying at the time were John Kerry, John Edwards, Bill and Hillary Clinton, and so on.


As has been said many times, Senators do not have the oversight of the Alphabet Agencies the way the executive branch does.... this really is a tired argument, man.


Cycloptichorn


So,I take it you agree with the rest of the article?
Or,are you attacking it because it disagrees with your preconcieved ideas?
Isnt that what you accuse the right of doing?
BTW,The various intelligence services report DIRECTLY to Congress,thats why we have the house and senate oversight committees.The President does not control them.


Well, I certainly don't agree with the article. Normally when someone says 'I will only bite on one item' it implies a general disagreement with the piece in question, but a lack of desire to go point by point.

As for the intelligence agencies reporting to congress, have you ever heard of.... classified documents? Many of the reports that congress recieves have huge sections blacked out. I guarantee the Admin has nothing blacked out on it's reports.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 12:55 pm
Troll bait. Brand X's particularly foul-smelling chum.

None of this ridiculous (and ongoing) smear changes the fact that leaking the name of a CIA operative is a felony.

And that's also why Bush has lawyered up.
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 01:00 pm
There was also a second Senate resolution specifically to nail everything down, subsequently they voted for the war.

But hey, the info was faulty, some of it dicked around with like Wilson did though.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 01:11 pm
PDiddie wrote:
Troll bait. Brand X's particularly foul-smelling chum.

None of this ridiculous (and ongoing) smear changes the fact that leaking the name of a CIA operative is a felony.

And that's also why Bush has lawyered up.


You are absolutely right,to disclose the name of a CIA OPERATIVE (read agent) is illegal.
But,the oman in question was NOT an operative,she was an analyst.
That means she took the info others got and analyzed it for meaning.She was a desk jockey,not a field agent.There is a huge difference.

Red,This story is not just in opinion journal,but even if it is,is it wrong?
Are the facts it presented wrong? Is the story made up?
Just because you dislike the messenger does not mean the message is wrong.

Cyclo,
You said..."I guarantee the Admin has nothing blacked out on it's reports."
Wanna bet?
Names of Field officers are routinely blacked out,as are sources,and anything else that might possibly ID where info comes from.That way it cant be released,even accidently,to the press.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 01:30 pm
mysteryman wrote:
You are absolutely right,to disclose the name of a CIA OPERATIVE (read agent) is illegal.
But,the oman in question was NOT an operative,she was an analyst.
That means she took the info others got and analyzed it for meaning.She was a desk jockey,not a field agent.There is a huge difference.


False.

Where you get the idea that she is "just" an "analyst" is a common and oft-repeated error:

Quote:
For obvious reasons, little is known of Plame's professional career. She described herself as an energy analyst for a private company, Brewster Jennings & Associates, which was subsequently acknowledged to be a CIA front company.


That's from Wikipedia.

No one (of even the most modest intelligence and bias) disputes this woman was an undercover CIA agent.

Try again, and hurry up before some of those neoconservatives in the White House start getting frog-marched out.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 01:49 pm
PDiddie,
Even YOUR link says she was an ANALYST,NOT an undercover operative.
I dont know if she was or not,but your link contradicts your own statement.
0 Replies
 
the reincarnation of suzy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 03:07 pm
Of course!!! As with everything else these past three years, it's all the fault of everyone but Bush!
Everyone else on Earth is a partisan hack, only out to get him!
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 03:42 pm
In an earlier reference to The Plame Game,
a while ago, somebody here wrote:
... Still, I expect this will be of far less service to The Democrats than they would wish, and result in far less inconvenience to The Republicans than they would prefer. If nothing else can be said of The Current Administration, it is widely opinined that them boys is slick. It is neither impossible nor unprecedented that The Current Administration might come out of this very well indeed.




Mr. Green
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 05:21 pm
mysteryman wrote:
PDiddie,
Even YOUR link says she was an ANALYST,NOT an undercover operative.
I dont know if she was or not,but your link contradicts your own statement.


For Christ's sake, mystery, let's try this again, with the significant parts highlighted:

Quote:
She described herself as an energy analyst for a private company, Brewster Jennings & Associates, which was subsequently acknowledged to be a CIA front company.


Now what is it that secret agents tell people when they don't want anyone to know they're a secret agent?

My God... Rolling Eyes

That's almost as stupid as this:

Quote:
It is neither impossible nor unprecedented that The Current Administration might come out of this very well indeed.


"very well indeed".

I'm sure the President agrees, which is obviously the reason why he has retained counsel. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 05:25 pm
The more info that gets out the more it looks like this Admin is being vendicated.....where it counts for them.....being re-elected.

Much can still happen before Nov. of course.
0 Replies
 
kwvining
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 05:54 pm
Don't get your hopes up. The British are releasing their WMD report tomorrow, and it confirms what Wilson said. The Republican Senate Intelligence committee is just that - Rpublican. Their report convienently covers every exposed Republican ass in DC. Only a chump would believe what they are trying to sell. but then agan, chumps have been buying WMD crap for two years.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 10:02 pm
Re: Are Valerie Plame and Joe Wilson partisan cons?
The Off-the-Wall Street Journal wrote:
So it appears that some of the claims about WMD used by the Bush Administration and others to argue for war in Iraq were mistaken because they were based on erroneous information provided by the CIA.

OK, so it was the CIA's fault for providing erroneous information. There were no weapons of mass destruction. It was all a big mistake. Bush got fooled, congress got fooled. Nobody lied to nobody. Right?

Oh, wait...

The Off-the-Wall Street Journal wrote:
Saddam retained a "just-in-time" capability to make WMD, even if he destroyed, hid or removed the "stockpiles" that the CIA believed he had.

I see. So Saddam did have the capability to make weapons "on spot," and he had "stockpiles"* that were there and now are gone.

But wait, I'm confused. If it was the CIA's fault for providing erroneous information, what exactly was erroneous? That Saddam had weapons? Well, as the article points out, he had capabilities and he had stockpiles, so why was this information necessarily erroneous? After all, what's the difference between a weapon that can be launched in a matter of minutes and a weapon that can be manufactured and launched in a matter of minutes?

If the CIA was a bit overzealous in pointing to actual weapons when it should have been pointing to actual potential weapons, then wasn't its overzealousness excusable, given the trivial distinction between the two? And if it's excusable, why is the WSJ calling the CIA's information "erroneous?" Is the WSJ suggesting that there wasn't any real threat? That we went to war over nothing? That the CIA led us into an unnecessary war by exaggerating a non-existent threat? Well, then, what I want to know is this: why is the WSJ so unpatriotic? Why, indeed, does the WSJ hate America so much?


*stockpiles of what the article doesn't make very clear -- maybe stockpiles of capabilities?
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 07:09 am
kwvining wrote:
Don't get your hopes up. The British are releasing their WMD report tomorrow, and it confirms what Wilson said. The Republican Senate Intelligence committee is just that - Rpublican. Their report convienently covers every exposed Republican ass in DC. Only a chump would believe what they are trying to sell. but then agan, chumps have been buying WMD crap for two years.


From the Butler Report- Excerpt

"The intelligence claims on Niger did not rest on forged documents alone - there were other sources."

"Assessments that Iraq sought uranium from Africa were "well founded".

Butler Report main points.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jul, 2004 11:53 am
Like Sherlock Holmes' dog that did not bark, the most remarkable aspect of last week's Senate Intelligence Committee report is what its Democratic members did not say. They did not dissent from the committee's findings that Iraq apparently asked about buying yellowcake uranium from Niger. They neither agreed to a conclusion that former diplomat Joseph Wilson was suggested for a mission to Niger by his CIA employee wife nor defended his statements to the contrary.

Wilson's activities constituted the only aspects of the yearlong investigation for which the committee's Republican chairman, Sen. Pat Roberts, was unable to win unanimous agreement. According to committee sources, Roberts felt Wilson had been such a ''cause celebre'' for Democrats that they could not face the facts about him.

For a year, Democrats have been belaboring President Bush about 16 words in his 2003 State of the Union address in which he reported Saddam Hussein's attempt to buy uranium from Africa, based on British information. Wilson has been lionized in liberal circles for allegedly contradicting this information on a CIA mission and then being punished as a truth-teller. Now, for committee Democrats, it is as though the Niger question and Joe Wilson have vanished from the Earth.

Because a Justice Department special prosecutor is investigating whether any crime was committed when my column first identified Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, as a CIA employee, on advice of counsel I have not written on the subject since October. However, I feel compelled to describe how the committee report treats the Niger-Wilson affair because it has received scant coverage except in a few media outlets. The unanimously approved report said, ''interviews and documents provided to the Committee indicate that his wife, a CPD (CIA counterproliferation division) employee, suggested his name for the trip.'' That's what I reported, and what Wilson flatly denied and still does.

Plame sent out an internal CIA memo saying ''my husband has good relations with both the PM [prime minister] and the former Minister of Mines (not to mention lots of French contacts), both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity.'' A State Department analyst told the committee about an inter-agency meeting in 2002 that was ''apparently convened by [Wilson's] wife, who had the idea to dispatch [him] to use his contacts to sort out the Iraq-Niger uranium issue.''

The committee found that the CIA report, based on Wilson's mission, differed considerably from the former ambassador's description to the committee of his findings. That report ''did not refute the possibility that Iraq had approached Niger to purchase uranium.'' As far as his statement to the Washington Post about ''forged documents'' involved in the alleged Iraqi attempt to buy uranium, Wilson told the committee he may have ''misspoken.'' In fact, the intelligence community agreed that ''Iraq was attempting to procure uranium from Africa.''

''While there was no dispute with the underlying facts,'' Chairman Roberts wrote separately, ''my Democrat colleagues refused to allow'' two conclusions in the report. The first conclusion merely said that Wilson was sent to Niger at his wife's suggestion. The second conclusion is devastating: ''Rather than speaking publicly about his actual experiences during his inquiry of the Niger issue, the former ambassador seems to have included information he learned from press accounts and from his beliefs about how the Intelligence Community would have or should have handled the information he provided.''

The normally mild Roberts is harsh in his condemnation: ''Time and again, Joe Wilson told anyone who would listen that the president had lied to the American people, that the vice president had lied, and that he had 'debunked' the claim that Iraq was seeking uranium from Africa. . . . [N]ot only did he NOT 'debunk' the claim, he actually gave some intelligence analysts even more reason to believe that it may be true.'' Roberts called it ''important'' for the committee to declare much of what Wilson said ''had no basis in fact.'' In response, Democrats were silent.

link
0 Replies
 
the reincarnation of suzy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jul, 2004 01:02 pm
Oh what is that? His defense for outing her? hah!
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jul, 2004 01:14 pm
Ken Lay has a lawyer in the Enron case. George W. Bush has a lawyer in the Plame case.

According to Josh Marshall, it's the same lawyer.

As a pill-gobbling radio bloviator would put it: you can't make this stuff up, folks....
0 Replies
 
 

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