verbal/emotional abuse of child

Certainly, the casual and careless denigration of a child (you're stupid, that was a stupid thing to do, you're so clumsy) is a form of emotional abuse, which i would suggest many people do not realize. Care must always be exercised (you forgot something here, rather than you're stupid; you could do that differently, rather than that was a stupid thing to do; oops, maybe you should try that again, rather than you're so clumsy). The effects can be dramatic and long term. Whenever i would stub a toe or fall down as a child, my grandmother would tell me i was such a clumsy child, and i believed it. It was not until i "grew into" my long arms and legs and began to be good at baseball that i overcame a conviction, almost bred in the bone, that i was clumsy.

People speak to children in inexcusable ways, and i hear it all around me every day.

Bookmark.

I make a distinction between malicious and unthinking verbal and/or emotional abuse of a child. Granted, both sorts of nasty coments are painful for the child and neither sort is a recommended or effective child rearing technique.

There is a big difference between people who set out to humiliate a child to make themselves feel important and people who make belittling remarks because they themselves were raised with belittling remarks and know no other style of parenting.

I tend to disagree with you, Noddy. Most abuse - physical, verbal - is not planned, premeditated. If a parents whack a kid with an object and the result is a broken arm, I don't think most people would bother to ask, 'did you mean to break the child's arm'? If they did, the answer (truthfully) would most likely be 'no' anyway.

My big problem is with repeated, ongoing verbal abuse versus a once-in-a-while loss of control. For example, say Set-the-boy had just knocked over some stuff on the kitchen table and his Grandma got hot coffee spilled on her. If she said, 'Setanta, you clumsy @#$%!' I don't think I'd blame her much. What she did seem to do was call him clumsy at every opportunity. I doubt she planned to, but she should have known better.

I had a lot of verbal and some mild physical abuse from my mother. Her rules were arbitrary. She could blow up at any time and there was no predicting it. I had to 'walk on eggshells' all the time. I was aware of her every mood, and was always accomodating her mood swings. She was/is a classic narcissist. The constant stress caused literal damage to my brain. By far what I feared most were the hurtful words, not the ear twisting, arm twisting, smacks across the face, etc.

Contrast that to my Dad, who is/was by no means perfect. His rules were clear. He gave warnings and the punishments were plainly stated. I got spankings, but they were deliberate, almost ritualized acts.

bromeliad--

Abusing a child is wrong--and none of us are perfect.

As you said, no one plans to break a child's arm--they planned to hit only half/three-quarters/seven-eights as hard as they did.

Unfortunately, parenthood is not a licensed profession. Any two people with friendly DNA can play.

I expect we're both thinking about that toilet training thread? Correct? The mother calls her son, "my baby". Daddy says, "sissy". One parent approves of childish behavior/misbehavior--the other does not.

Each of these people has something valuable to offer the kid--but neither one is perfect and both are fumbling for guiding rules (while earning a living and raising the kid and coping with finances and in laws.....).

Three years old is old enough to learn that tears are not going to excuse bad behavior (even if Mommie cries easily). Unconditional Love is a wonderful idea, but while you love the child, you have to draw clear lines about what is and what is not praiseworthy and acceptable behavior. I think this is what Daddy is trying to do.



Because of your background (which shaped both your physical brain and your adult personality) you are going to be hyper-aware of the consequences of thoughtless abuse. I'm going to cut an occasional verbal abuser a little slack. I would never tolerate physical abuse. Yes, emotional abuse can be even more damaging, but emotional abuse can be apologized for in a way that physical battering cannot.

Bromeliad, you've opened up a large subject.

Noddy,

I may have opened up a large subject, but not many here seem very interested...

Yes, this was inspired by the other thread. I don't think I have enough information to draw any strong conclusions about that one, but I lean toward the Mom being completely reasonable and the Dad being a control freak and potentially quite abusive. I don't think calling a 3-yr old boy a 'sissy' is acceptable in any context. But that's just my opinion.

I'm surprised that I have been disagreeing so much with you on this forum of late. I've been questioning myself since you are ususally so 'right on' about everything.

At any rate:

Do you, or anyone else out there, have a way of defining verbal/emotional abuse?

Perhaps because of resentment, but, for whatever cause, as an adult i've always felt that one has an obligation to be as cordial as possible with children, and in matters of discipline, because of the responsibility rather than despite it. How can we any of us treat our loved ones ill? Are we then to show more regard for mere acquaintance than blood? The thoughtless remark wounds the small folk among us the more, as they are not amored against the proverbial slings and arrows of a quotidian outrageous fortune. What greater misfortune is there than to be born unwitting in to an evironment which rewards curiosity with sneer, complaint with ridicule, and justifiable outrage with blows?

We want our children to handle money well, so we must let them handle it, and make the attendant errors without suffering our frustration or contempt. We want them to behave with social grace, so we must provide the example; if one demands courtesy, but does not offer it oneself, than such an example is mockery, and ashes in the small hearts callously wounded by mental neglect or worse still, a childish competition for importance from an adult. We want them to have a due regard for our rights, property and privacy--and how are they to learn that if we do reciprocate?

If one loves one's child, there can be no excuse for not extending to them the courtesy, regard, respect, compassion and empathy that we foolishly lavish on an acquaintance we are eager to please.

I can rant no more . . . this is all just too, too bad . . .

I am kinda somewhere between you two in that "toilet thread" (bromeliad, Noddy).
I wouldn't call this Dad's behaviour abusive.
But I also wouldn't say that it's "in borders of normal criticism", like Noddy said.
He (dad) is over-reacting, and he certainly acts like a jerk. I am far far away from most of other suggestions on this thread, especially those that without any evidence or even slightest sign suggest that he will become physically abusive or that she should run away from him as soon as possible.

But, I do think that father's behaviour is totally wrong. However, I actually think that mother's behaviour is totally wrong as well. Calling 3-year old "sissy" for those reasons is wrong and he acts like a jerk. However, his mother, in my opinion of course, does makes "sissy" out of this child.

Busy morning here, but I'll be back.

Here is what I found on a verbal abuse website - "Abuse is about control and the fear of losing it. Ill-treatment is an absurd effort to maintain and enhance the abuser's hegemony - social, cultural, legal, and, above all, psychological. Abusers exploit, lie, insult, demean, ignore (the "silent treatment"), manipulate, and control. There are a million ways to abuse, directly and by proxy. To love too much is to abuse. It is tantamount to treating someone as an extension, an object, or an instrument of gratification. To be over-protective, not to respect privacy, to be brutally honest, with a sadistic sense of humor, or consistently tactless, to be unpredictable, arbitrary, capricious, to react disproportionately, to dehumanize, to objectify - is to abuse.

To expect too much, to denigrate, to ignore - are all modes of abuse. There is physical abuse, verbal abuse, psychological abuse, sexual abuse. The list is long. Most abusers abuse surreptitiously. They are "stealth abusers". You have to actually live with one in order to witness the mistreatment.."
http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/verbal_emotional_abuse

Here is a great Q&A on verbal abuse and effect on children… http://www.parentsoup.com/experts/guests/qas/0,,166204_538132,00.html

Bromeliad--

My guess is there is a great deal of imperfection in that family and toilet training is only one manifestation of adult flaws. Still, even though both parents have their insecurities, neither is a total failure as a parent.

Meanwhile, the three year old is exploiting the situation--with his mother's cooperation. This has got to stop.

My definition of child abuse in general would be when the adult consistantly puts his or her needs ahead of the needs of the child.
In the family we've been discussing, Mama needs a baby--so she babies a three-year-old and encourages his tears. Daddy, at least, is focused on the toilet training.

Did you notice Mama's last post? If he's not speaking to her, she's not speaking to him and furthermore he gets to go out with his buddies while she's stuck home with the kids.... Rational discourse and compromise are not part of this woman's native habitat.

Men are from Mars--the planet of the war god. Men (father/son, friends/ co-workers) say things to each other that they would never say to a woman (and that probably a woman would never say).

Item: Dick Chaney's use of the f-word on the floor of the Senate. He would probably not have used that language to insult a female senator. That was locker room talk--mano el mano discourse.

Little boys learn from their fathers about being ruff and tuff and manly. Believe me, I'm delighted that I'm not invited to the Men's Lodge for drinks and dinner.

"Sissy" isn't a kind word. There are undoubtedly many more effective approaches to toilet training. All the same, the manly father is trying to help his son grow up--and this seems to threaten mama.

As I said....complicated! Particularly when judging from material written by people unpracticed in writing.

Linkat ~
thanks for those excellent links (especially the Q&A one)

Noddy ~
I still disagree. Is Mama really babying her son? All she did was call him her 'baby' in her post, probably just to emphasize how much it hurts her to see the boy hurting. She has another young one to look after. I doubt she really has time to 'baby' him. I don't know how she does it, frankly. I'm getting the feeling that she wants to talk to her husband, but is actually afraid to.

And I question the idea that the Dad is really just 'old-fashioned'. I've read books from the Victorian era; I even knew a woman in Quebec whose family basically functioned like a Victorian-era household. The husband, in that sort of scenario, does nothing at home and just provides the income. The woman does all the household stuff and child-rearing, but how it gets done is up to her. It is HER domain. Yes, Dad has to work outside the home but he's off the hook at home. Not much of a great deal, but it's still a deal. The husband basically has nothing to do with childrearing until the kids are school-age. The woman I knew said she used to give the kids their supper, bath then bed. Dad came home from work, then they had their grown-up supper together, uninterrupted. Didn't sound like it was what I would like, but they seemed to like it just fine.

bromeliad--

"And which was false and which was true,
The wisest critic never knew,
For both alike were real."

A lot more than beauty resides in the eye of the beholder and without more information we can't settle the question. Actually, we can never settle the question. We agree that the situation is not ideal--and only one symptom of a basic problem.

Hold your dominion.

Yup. I agree. :wink:

Defining emotional/verbal abuse


Child abuse comes in many forms and works in different ways. For example a child can be verbally torn and "Beat Down" with no physical abuse. From constant experience i do not believe some parents know they are doing it but when it comes up they chose not to believe it. That makes it entirely harder for the child when the parents chooses not to listen. I have been called names such as "Bitch" "Stupid" "screwed up" and countless more...and therefore now i feel as I'm not loved by anyone and I encounter the worst love seeking relationships..My life feels like its crumbling right in front of me and those 9 sweet months to freedom feel like years away. I love both my parents they try but when she(mom) gets mad watch for the verbal slashings...She doesnt listen she accuses me of just seeking pity when I cry and try to explain and now i have a ll these bottled feelings locked inside begging to get out...I have no idea how to even approach them now i'm only 17 years old. I should be happy not dealing with constant stress and worry of what she will come up with next. I have no private life at home! everything that happens they know about i cant leave or even put a note away from it being read...I have to hide my purse at night to keep her hands out of it. I am granted no privacy and I'm still treated as a kid when I'm closer to an adult than ever a kid. She still checks up on me....she says she does all this because she loves me and doesnt want anything bad to happen to me! I have come to realize thats just an excuse she uses...I mean who tells their daughter....that one day soon they'll have to go to the morgue to identify her body! she tries to make me believe I am this rotten person who does nothing right! when I know i was a little bad at one time but every teenager goes thru that stage of rebellion and trying things. I have never went to jail or even come close...Never...But I'm still bad bad bad... I now know better and nothings she says can hurt me anymore shes done enough of that...she has taken my friends away i have no privlidges I'm like a prisoner..well I wouldnt say prisoner thats kind a harsh....but I have to plead beg and LIE to get to leave my own house! oh wait! thats after I Clean their house...they work all day they shouldnt have to come home to a messy house..so says my mom..verbal abuse causes so many problems for people and I have come to realize it has caused problems with me I'll never get over..I mean I'm sure I'll even have a bad love life...just from my home life! I mean I do it now..i pick the worst guys of all to fall for...the unfaithful hotties! yeah I'm young but when you cant get love from home its kinda hard not to search for it in the real world...so i have grown up a lot...I never got to go to a high school party never got to join a team..i wasnt socially outcasted but I walked on eggshells.. i still do. I hope now everyone can be a little more enlightened on what verbal abuse is from a childs point of view..thanks

Whoa whoa whoa lots of things going on there, BrokenWing. Some are, like you say, over the top. Telling you that someday she'll have to ID you in the morgue is ludicrous and hateful. Calling you nasty names is wrong at any and every level.

But cleaning the house is a normal chore that everyone has to do. I doubt that you're Cinderella, scrubbing the floor on your hands and knees while everyone goes to the ball. After all, you live there, too. I well recall being put to work cleaning the bathrooms and doing the laundry and the cooking. That wasn't abuse - it was being a contributing member of a home. If I was 17 again, I'd do the same.

And I can see where Mom is worried if all you're doing is going out with unfaithful hotties. After all, unfaithful hotties can get HIV. That may or may not be your mother's motivation for her behavior, but you have to admit that things aren't perfect. She does have some legit reasons for concern, even if she is overdoing them and even if, in some ways, she is to blame.

But you are nearly an adult. If you want to be treated like one, you need to take responsibility for your choices and your actions. Want to date the unfaithful hotties? Fine, but recognize that people will worry about you. Want to avoid cleaning the house? Fine, but understand the house won't be clean and people who are tired from a full day of work will be disappointed and angry.

Having no private life at home is unfortunate, but it's a product of our society. Parents are routinely encouraged to check on their kids to see if they're smoking pot or drinking (I'm sure you've seen the commercials). If that's an excuse for your mother to cover for just being a snoop, I don't know. I don't know her. But since things are that way - and since you are almost an adult - you need to modify your own behavior since you are unable to modify hers.

You mention that you got into some sort of routine trouble but you are careful not to tell us what it is. If you want to mention it or not is, of course, your own prerogative, but stop and think if you were treated this way before the trouble, or only after it? And, was it recent, or was it months or even years ago? What may seem like an overreaction to you may seem perfectly normal to your mother. I'm not defending her, but a big part of maturity is understanding others' perspectives. If you smoked pot, let's say for sake of argument, and it was in the house, your mother would be pretty angry about the abuse of her trust. And she'd feel justified snooping around, I'll wager. If you were just late one night, and all of this is going on, I'd say it's an overreaction, though - let's face it, people are late sometimes. If it's not a habit and not done as a flaunting of trust, it shouldn't be a big deal.

Finally, consider how things are. Are you getting good grades? Pleasant to be around? Where you say you're going to be? If the answer to any of these questions is no, keep in mind that some (not all, by any means, but some) of this situation may be of your own making. I know that may not be what you want to hear but you said yourself you have 9 more months until ... something. By my calculations, that puts you into next March. That's not when you graduate, I figure, so I assume it's when you turn 18. Magical things will not suddenly happen when you turn 18. If you want to be emancipated, and I mean really emancipated from this situation, you need to start lining up your ducks. See if you can work without it affecting your grades. Look into college, and into places that will give you full or partial scholarships. And try to make the next 9 months better. You can't change her, but you can change you. Best of luck to you.

Very good advice from Jespah.

As for the other thread--very few three year old boys discuss justice in punishment with their mommies without a lot of prompting. Kids accept the world as it is and if the kid is seeing Daddy as a brute, Mommie is feeding him lines.

Broken Wing--

In your posting, you sound like a young seventeen. Jespah has given you some excellent advice. Good luck.