Is the Universe Infinite?

So I've read through all this only to find out the question was wrong in the forst place.

So is the quaziverse universal?

your welcome


A pleasure to make your formal acquaintance Sir Asherman

Your Welcome! I can use all the help I can get trying to make our point understood by the masses. In my opinion 50 years from now or less what we debate here will be taken for granted. Whether or not we have sufficient evidence to prove the infinite internal and infinite external fabric of space time pockets that make up our infinite Universe as long as no hard fact has yet to cross our path to tear down this house of cards, our mutual agreement will eventually prevail. Common sense will eventually prevail. Stubbornness, close-mindedness, ignorance and hopefully eventually many more prejudices and bigotries may continue to dissolve. If so we might actually stand a chance of one day having a single world government with the sole purpose of providing the best possible environment to flourish in for every living creature within our domain. If so we might actually stand a chance of one day being so far flung across the galaxy, and eventually our POST that our species may survive after our sun goes Nova.

That is the meaning of life. That is our purpose on this planet whether we are here by accident, intelligence, or the laws of physics, our purpose is to ensure our survival. Humans are no different then any other species. Remove the higher orders of knowledge and intelligence from a species and you are left with an instinct to survive. That is our purpose. To do all in our power to see that our species survives and in doing so attempting to provide the best possible conditions for as great a percentage of the number of living creatures as possible. Peace, harmony, love, and a shot at being one of the very very very very few evolutionary chains capable of evolving past the next atomic layer into a larger universe in about a decillion years.

so theres a good chance of another big bang? nipok?

Can anyone say with certainty, no. Can someone say with conviction, yes.
Me I think there are an infinite number of them taking place and an infinite number of them have taken place in the time it took you to read this reply. Will there be an infinite number of "big bangs" that will affect us directly, ie, our POST? I can't say as I don't have enough empirical data. Our POST may merge with others like it and go through evolution after evolution of cataclysmic collisions but as far as the type of collision that would take place to vaporize our POST into almost pure energy and then "point particles" and then atoms and then molecules and eventually galaxies, I don't know.

Part of me says it must happen an infinite number of times and part of me wonders how rare this type of collision really is. I am talking about a collision that would take place at a rate of speed far far greater than the speed of light. A collision that could pulverize and atomize our entire POST in the matter of a few seconds. Something that could sweep across 70 billion lights years in an instant.

whoa thats scary, are you talking about parallel universes, cause i am not really a big fan of that, and do you base this theory on some scientific evidence or you just came up with it, what i am trying to ask is, is it scientifically possible?

GB, you want to be scared? Just think about Bush, and four more years.

TWO MORE MONTHS! TWO MORE MONTHS!

..Michael Moore

Re: your welcome


i agree, but strongly disagree with the 'terminology'; that is our 'default' as an emerging sentient species.

As there is no purpose to life (why should there be?), as we gain wisdom (beyond those who would destroy the fabric of civilization, in a cess pool of violence, and stupidity, bred of now useless instincts) it becomes apparent that the conquest of the future is the only challenge worth taking, and one in which we will all need to work together.

[that is our 'default' purpose!]

speaking of scary metaphors;

i like Nipok's term "POST", and i got me to thinking that our universe could be construed as a 'thread' on an internet forum (like a2k);

[the great Forum in the sky!]

and that each of us would be simply a 'post'!

There would be, in the Ulti'forum', many other threads by many other 'post'ers, and of course they would all be at the mercy of the 'webmaster'!

If s/he/it found that any 'post' was not to its liking - "puff"!

[that would make the hamsters angels; and Craven............. ]

BoGoWo, what do you think of other quasi-verses out there existing?

also nipok, is POST a scientific thing or you just made it up

The acronym for Pocket Of Space Time I made as far as I know. Too confusing using the word universe with a lowercase u and Universe with an uppercase U. This also makes the supposition (or deduction depending on how you look at it) that the space time continuum that was created from our big bang did not create The Universe and all of Space and all of Time.

Lots of short sighted and closed minded individuals who appear to spout scientific integrity denounce the "deduction" without contradiction because they lack the conceptualization powers necessary to make their own deductions and are forced to find answers in what others "spout" only when the majority "spouts" it. When the minority "spouts" it they dismiss it without valid contradiction as they have little else to give them faith. Science gives them faith and strength much like religion does for those unable to grasp the inner findings of science.

Since at this time it can be neither proven nor disproved that our Pocket of Space Time exists inside a much larger Pocket of Space Time I opt for logic and common sense and feel that our big bang created a point in time and space.

naw i didnt mean the term POST, i mean pockets of space/time, did you just make that up?

personally, do you believe there are other POST's outside of ours, might even be different than ours

As stated already in 10 or 15+ "different posts" (pardon the pun) I think there are an infinite number of different POST's and an infinite number of them are different that ours. (the problem with this is that it means there could be an infinite number just like ours)

aw dang then that is exactly like the parallel universe theory (infinite me and you)? or is it?

Yes and no. I agree that it is tough to grasp and almost counter-intuitive so to make it easier to grasp for you, you don't have to believe the whole part.

Just believe in half of the infinite number of POSTS and then there won't be as many possible reproductions of your DNA existing before our big bang, at this very moment, or after our sun goes nova.


Now, just because there may be an infinite number of habitable planets that have existed for an infinite length of time does not mean that every single detail of our planet or your life could have been duplicated. Someone once stated something like a room full of monkeys with a room full of typewriters would write Hamlet given an infinite length of time. This is very similar to your problem with a "parallel universe". See there if false logic in assuming that infinity automatically correlates to every possibility being encountered. Odds tip in the favor of possibilities when the number of attempts increases but even with an infinite number of attempts there are some odds so great that even infinity can't beat them.

If I flip a coin it may land on heads, land on tails, or land on it's edge. Within five thousand flips of a coin I might get it to land on its edge. Now I flip another coin. The odds of it landing on its edge on top of the other coin without knocking over the first coin so both coins are now standing on edge one on top of the other went from one in 5,000 to something like one in a million. (the actual odds are far from accurate I am just trying to make a point) Now I flip another coin. The odds of getting this third coin to land on the other 2 and having all 3 stand on each edge without knocking over just jumped into the billions or trillions. See the laws of physics and the law of gravity will cause force to be exerted on the 2 coins when the 3rd lands on it and the instability of the foundation those 2 coins make mean even if I hit edge to edge on the 3rd flip the odds are more likely that the 2 coins will fall into a pile then to stand edge to edge.

Now I use 3 coins and make a point that just because you get an infinite number of tries does not mean that every possibility must happen. So lets move to 5 coins. That's it. 5 simple flips of a coin landing edge on edge making a tower 5 coins high. That's is the odds of duplicating our universe, our planet, your DNA, my DNA on our planet 13.7 billion years after a big bang. Take an infinite number of tries and yes you may be able to do this an infinite number of times but that does not mean that you can do it even once more.

Where the supposition of true infinity comes in is with the concept of twice. There is nothing that automatically displaces uniqueness because of infinity. Infinite does not negate the possibility of some being unique or single. What it does do however is force twice to become infinite. As soon as something exists 2 times in an infinite universe it must exist an infinite number of times. So all we need to do is prove at least one other POST exists besides the one created from our big bang and to me that says there must be an infinite number of other POSTs.

i see what your saying, and i agree with you and it will be long before we can prove another POST exist (i got a feeling that they do exist), maybe a new POST is created when 2 or more POST collide with each other?

i really like this "other POST's" theory , are there alot of people who believes in it or is it just us two?

and some POST might be cyclic and some wont be, am i correct?

Gold Barz, I am going out on limb but you are 12, 13, maybe 14 yes?
Its great to see someone as young as you so interested in metaphysics but that's is all this is. This is not science, just theory. Granted my house of cards is very large and all encompassing and stands up right smack up against the current paradigm and has not been knocked over yet but it is still all theoretical. Yes a lot of people probably believe it and a lot don't. No different then believing in multi-dimensional strings or one of a handful of other theories that attempt to tackle quantum gravity. Once people realize that our point particles are far from the smallest particles of matter and that the unified field theory rests in something called Aetheric Density then the rest of my house of cards will fall into place. But by no means think of my spoutings as any more valid or any less valid in the scientific community then most of what goes on in the "philosophy and debate forum"

GoldB, do you not recognize that what nipok is saying with his POSTs, and what i am describing with my 'Ultiverse/universe scenario, are virtually identical, but for terminology?

[i would add however, that i see infinity as including 'everything', not necessarily in 'duplicate', but everything, nevertheless.]

yeah i think i get it now, you two guys are basically saying the same thing