2
   

Leaving before I get banned.

 
 
SueZCue
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 01:40 pm
Re: Leaving before I get banned.
Wilso wrote:
I just can't read any more of the right wing garbage that's infesting this site like a leech, sucking the life out of it like everything else they touch. They disgust me to the core of my being, so I feel it's better to bid a peaceful farewell now. Thanks for the memories. It used to be fun.


Kitchen Pete -

From the blatantly and unreasonably angry tone of this guy's posting, I'm pretty sure he's a Michael Moore fan (and does not watch FOX news.) It's awful that people have been manipulated to the point of hatred.

We're all one country, whether we agree politically or in any other way. It makes no difference. Wasn't being accepted for one's views without fear of persecution what this country was supposed to be about in the first place?

And yes, I do watch FOX news. I also enjoy watching MSN, CNN and all the major networks so I feel that I have gotten as many views of my favorite topics as possible and am then am able to sort through the crap and make up my own mind, rather than be made to sound like an angry psychotic like this poor guy quoted above.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 01:45 pm
For the record, SueZ, Wilso lives in Oz, so any remarks about "we're all one country" are meaningless in reference to him.
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margo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 01:59 pm
A goodly number of the posters on this thread are not Murricans....
SueZCue wrote:
We're all one country, whether we agree politically or in any other way. It makes no difference. Wasn't being accepted for one's views without fear of persecution what this country was supposed to be about in the first place?


We're not and we don't want to be......
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 02:01 pm
You know, Sydney seems like it would be a good place to live . . .



























. . . were it not for the cats . . .
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 02:02 pm
Dang my eyes are itchy. It's either pepper spray, or contact myopia.
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margo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 02:04 pm
Setanta wrote:
You know, Sydney seems like it would be a good place to live . . .

. . . were it not for the cats . . .


ppppbbbbfffffttthhhh!!!!!!!! Twisted Evil
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 02:12 pm
thank you, thank you


Thank you very much . . .
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husker
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 03:10 pm
this ol'topic really took on a life! Wink
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husker
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 03:14 pm
Sofia - NP long as I'm not on any of the following lists:
a. supend from a2k
b. getting a pinkslip
c. and a host of others I cannot think of on short notice Laughing



Sofia wrote:
nimh--

Thanks for the explanation of your Left, and Right! It was really helpful.

Phoenix, husker, Ash andsome others who made nimh's list---

I tried to focus on the regular players on political threads. Phoenix was iffy, because I don't see her nearly as often as I'd like, and because I don'tfind her predictable. (Predictable is not considered bad--as I am pretty predictable, meeself.) And hardly see Husk, or Ash there anymore. There were others on nimh's list I didn't think fit--but it IS HIS list... Smile

I was working from the pool of regular suspects, which IMO are overwhelmingly liberal--as contrasted with the small motley crew of conservatives...

This has been a neat couple of pages!
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SueZCue
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 03:26 pm
Then don't worry about it, Margo. I obviously wasn't referring to you then, right?
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 03:39 pm
There've been some neat pages for sure by my estimation ... watchin' the current permutation unfold has been vastly entertaining. Mebbe its hubris, but I think the current digression is of my making. Be that as it may, my take on this more-or-less digression-related discussion is that, congruent with my perception as earlier stated, the slant of A2K as a whole renders those of right/conservative viewpoint distinctly and indisputably, in the minority at least as concerns those herein assembled. Would there be supportable, demonstrable counter-argument, or has the premis been resolved as proposed?
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 03:53 pm
LOOK, BIG BIRD, SOMEBODY SPILLED A WHOLE BARREL OF CATFISH ! ! !





Now, if we're lucky, he'll be occupied for a while, and we can go back to insulting conservatives, Ozzian cats and anything else that strikes our fancy . . .
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 04:03 pm
Tryin' ta distract me with blatant bribery will pobably work pretty well, yappy little mutt Mr. Green
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 04:13 pm
Well, at least the CATS are getting it for a change....
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 04:19 pm
timberlandko wrote:
congruent with my perception as earlier stated, the slant of A2K as a whole renders those of right/conservative viewpoint distinctly and indisputably, in the minority at least as concerns those herein assembled. Would there be supportable, demonstrable counter-argument, or has the premis been resolved as proposed?


Objection, counselor.

I'd like to know what the percentages are, and I'm too lazy to count them myself...
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 04:20 pm
timberlandko, re Baily & Ms Cleo, wrote:
Tryin' ta distract me with blatant bribery will pobably work pretty well, yappy little mutt Mr. Green


And please at your soonest convenience convey to them my best wishes and sincerest regards. And tell 'em Sam says hello.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 04:57 pm
Sofia wrote:
LRR Hood--I don't think so. A recent post makes me think he/she has gone to the dark side. Smile
MichaelAllen--never see.
Fedral--Absent.

Fedral's still posting! He was in my thread just yesterday.

MichaelAllen was also gone for a coupla months after only a coupla months posting, but when I clicked search I saw a handful of new posts of his - and I think you'll like what he writes. Very eloquent and quite passionate (and very wrong of course ;-))

LRRHood seems more the libertarian type, which is right-wing to me but could easily shift someone against Bush or the conservative types ...

anyway, that's for that exercise.

(Oh, and you agreed on Gus being right-wing? I mean, he makes as much sense as a right-winger, hehhehheh)
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 04:58 pm
Sofia wrote:
I don't know the difference in a right-winger and a conservative...

I thought all left-wingers were liberal thinkers--and all right-wingers were right-leaning. I really don't think there's a difference.

Hmph! <grins>

I am a leftist, but I aint no liberal. Liberals are wishy-washy good-doers from the middle classes, who believe in the free market. I dont want some tinkering with the present system thats fueled by the upper middle class's sense of guilt - I want the working class to demand its rights! I want system change!

Seriously tho, to my (European) mind liberals are nicely socially tolerant (on, say, gay rights, drug policy, abortion, euthanasia and religion in general), but economically way too pro-market, pro-privatisation, pro-liberalisation (the word says it) - they dont have much up with our beloved social-democratic welfare state. To my (European) mind they do not count as leftists.

But then we've had this semantic discussion between Americans and Europeans/Canadians/Australians about what liberalism means a coupla times already.

Also, it has to be said, "classic liberalism" as described above is hard to find even here. Its all hybrid. Emblematically speaking, liberals should be pro-free market but free-thinking on social issues, while conservatives/christian-democrats are strict on religion, moral issues and modern society in general and more nationalist, but (therefore) also quite "protective" on economic issues. (The national welfare states here were created in co-operation with the christian-democrats.) Finally, the third "stream", the social-democrats, are historically free-thinking on cultural issues but egalitarian/statist on economic matters. Most European countries have/had some kind of variation of this three-way system.

But the last few decades especially its become all merged and mixed. Social-democrats moved further towards embracing individualism and the free market, yielding us Blair's centrist "third way". Conservatives and christian-democrats like Thatcher and Kohl in the 80s embraced more of the tough economic policies of budget cuts, even when it meant breaking up some of their parties' emphases on traditionalist, national unity. The liberals, meanwhile, ended up with the ideological victory (with everybody moving in their direction), but in a political squeeze.

Their response has been contradictory. On the one hand, Dutch and Belgian liberals, for example, entered into governments with third-way social-democrats that allowed them to implement much of the classic liberal agenda (free market, free morals), but at the cost of their political profile: them and the Blairites became all the same, each privatisation project offset by some employment subsidies, and together against the Church.

In reaction to such "left-liberalism", there are other strong forces that want to make the liberals (again) into a populist, no-nonsense right-wing party: still against the church, but most of all against taxes, for new freeways, and against welfare. Add a rich dose of anti-immigrant and asylum-seekers rhetorics and you have the "other" kind of European liberal party. The German, Dutch, Belgian, Danish liberals have all flirted with that or (now) outrightly chosen for it, and the consequence of choosing that path eventually is going the way of Berlusconi's Forza Italia, first -- and if it really goes wrong, that of Austria's Freedom Party, once a classic liberal party and now Joergen Haider's far-right anti-immigration vehicle.

Anyway, thats one European perspective on how "liberal" is different from "left-wing" - and I think Canadians and Australians might have some variations on the same theme? In Central and Eastern Europe, mind you, it's different again ... there the liberals are (if we don't count the Czech republic's Vaclav Klaus) mostly of the classic variety still, strongly pro-market but also strongly freethinking, up to including a strong defence of minority rights. (The most ethnically tolerant parties in Slovakia, Hungary, Russia are the pro-market liberals). But in much of Eastern Europe that combination has them actually tagged as left-wing or centrist, because the cultural dimension of politics there traditionally outweighs the economic one.

Always interesting, finally, is to see how the far left and far right basically meet up. I always say, it's a circle, not a line. The far-left and the far right both espouse protectionism, statism and anti-EU and anti-Western populism, while especially in the murkier regions of Eastern Europe the far left also shares the far-right's nationalism and xenophobia. We've had so-called "red-brown" coalition governments in Romania, Serbia, Slovakia ...
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 05:10 pm
SueZCue wrote:
Then don't worry about it, Margo. I obviously wasn't referring to you then, right?

No, but you were referring to Wilso, and he's not from the US either.

Nebbermind tho, happens all the time.
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 05:45 pm
Gus is a lefty.
0 Replies
 
 

 
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