18
   

Can a Government Official Claim Religious Exemption from Performing Official Duties?

 
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Sat 5 Sep, 2015 05:45 am
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:
I believe that in the gay marriage Supreme Court case, justice Scalia's dissenting opinion said that the decision had nothing to do with the Constitution.


Now there's irony for you, considering how often this court has legislated from the bench, without reference to the constitution. A good example is Scalia's majority opinion in The District of Columbia versus Heller, in which it was asserted that there is a natural right of self-defense. Although this may be an eminently defensible claim to make, there's nothing about it in the constitution.
HesDeltanCaptain
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Sep, 2015 09:18 am
@wandeljw,
No.

Judge was right throwing her in jail for contempt of court. Wanna be religious to the extent you disobey lawful court orders you should find a cult, and there are many to choose from. Being in a cult and a government functionary aren't compatible. Pick one.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  0  
Reply Sun 6 Sep, 2015 12:02 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
I believe that in the gay marriage Supreme Court case, justice Scalia's dissenting opinion said that the decision had nothing to do with the Constitution.


Now there's irony for you, considering how often this court has legislated from the bench, without reference to the constitution. A good example is Scalia's majority opinion in The District of Columbia versus Heller, in which it was asserted that there is a natural right of self-defense. Although this may be an eminently defensible claim to make, there's nothing about it in the constitution.

Not relevant to this decision. The Constitution doesn't mean whatever you want it to. It just means what it says and it never mentions marriage. The five justices on the majority side of the opinion just rationalized the way they wanted it to turn out.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Sep, 2015 03:28 pm
Quote:
Kim Davis released from jail, ordered not to interfere with same-sex marriage licenses
(By David Weigel, Abby Phillip and Sarah Larimer, The Washington Post, September 8, 2015)

GRAYSON, Ky. — “Eye of the Tiger” poured out of the loudspeakers. The crowd cheered. And Kim Davis sobbed, then exulted.

The defiant clerk from Rowan County was free at last, ready to thank a crowd of thousands gathered outside the jailhouse where Davis was held for five days for refusing to issue marriage licenses to gay couples.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/09/08/judge-orders-kentucky-clerk-kim-davis-released-from-jail/
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Sep, 2015 04:29 pm
@wandeljw,
Her deputies were not elected to the position of clerk. She was. She is obligated to perform these duties.

How can she continue holding office if she is derelict of her duties?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  3  
Reply Tue 8 Sep, 2015 04:36 pm
@Brandon9000,
The Constitution states -

Quote:
Amendment 9
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


Because the Constitution doesn't mention marriage in no way means marriage isn't a right.
Brandon9000
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 9 Sep, 2015 04:19 am
@parados,
parados wrote:
The Constitution states -

Quote:
Amendment 9
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


Because the Constitution doesn't mention marriage in no way means marriage isn't a right.

But it does mean that the Constitution doesn't say that gay marriage is a right, and these cases are being decided on the basis of what the Constitution says.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Wed 9 Sep, 2015 11:42 am
@Brandon9000,
The US Constitution also doesn't say anything about regular marriage or divorce or corporations being people. As Set already pointed out the Constitution doesn't say anything about self defense. It seems you want to disparage or deny a right not mentioned in the Constitution.


ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Sep, 2015 12:21 pm
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:

But it does mean that the Constitution doesn't say that gay marriage is a right, and these cases are being decided on the basis of what the Constitution says.


what kinds of marriages does the Constitution allow for?
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Sep, 2015 12:22 pm
@Brandon9000,
Does the Constitution explicitly allow for marriage between natural-born citizens and immigrants?
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Wed 9 Sep, 2015 03:43 pm
@parados,
Don't confuse Brandon with what the constitution actually says . . . he's having a difficult enough time as it is.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Wed 9 Sep, 2015 03:51 pm
@Brandon9000,
You know, you should actually read and study the constitution before you shoot off your mouth. This is the first section of the fourteenth amendment, in its entirety:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

That means that all people have the same civil rights, and that includes people whose sexual predilections you do not approve of.
Brandon9000
 
  0  
Reply Wed 9 Sep, 2015 05:44 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
Does the Constitution explicitly allow for marriage between natural-born citizens and immigrants?

The Constitution doesn't mention it at all.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  0  
Reply Wed 9 Sep, 2015 05:45 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
The US Constitution also doesn't say anything about regular marriage or divorce or corporations being people. As Set already pointed out the Constitution doesn't say anything about self defense. It seems you want to disparage or deny a right not mentioned in the Constitution.

I want to deny that something not mentioned in the Constitution is mentioned in the Constitution.
Brandon9000
 
  0  
Reply Wed 9 Sep, 2015 05:47 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
You know, you should actually read and study the constitution before you shoot off your mouth. This is the first section of the fourteenth amendment, in its entirety:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

That means that all people have the same civil rights, and that includes people whose sexual predilections you do not approve of.

It means that no law can impose one set of rules on one group of people and another set of rules on another group of people, which the definition of marriage as between a man and a woman didn't do. It does not, however, mean that if I get to do what I want, you get to do what you want, if what you want is different from what I want.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Thu 10 Sep, 2015 02:27 pm
@Brandon9000,
The fact that a right isn't mentioned specifically in the Constitution doesn't mean it isn't a right nor does it mean it isn't protected under the Constitution. The Constitution specifically says there are rights not mentioned in it. It also states that if the right isn't mentioned it is still a right.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Sep, 2015 03:32 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

The Constitution states -

Quote:
Amendment 9
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


Because the Constitution doesn't mention marriage in no way means marriage isn't a right.


Right you are.

The Constitution does not mention oatmeal in any way...but I should be allowed to eat it for breakfast without fear of being arrested.
Brandon9000
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 10 Sep, 2015 07:01 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
The fact that a right isn't mentioned specifically in the Constitution doesn't mean it isn't a right nor does it mean it isn't protected under the Constitution. The Constitution specifically says there are rights not mentioned in it. It also states that if the right isn't mentioned it is still a right.

However, the fact that a behavior isn't mentioned either specifically or any other way whatever in the Constitution does mean that it isn't protected by the Constitution. In this case, it would be up to federal, state, or local laws to say something about it.
Brandon9000
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 10 Sep, 2015 07:03 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

parados wrote:

The Constitution states -

Quote:
Amendment 9
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


Because the Constitution doesn't mention marriage in no way means marriage isn't a right.


Right you are.

The Constitution does not mention oatmeal in any way...but I should be allowed to eat it for breakfast without fear of being arrested.


Correct, you should, but it does mean that eating oatmeal isn't protected by the Constitution.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Thu 10 Sep, 2015 08:21 pm
@Brandon9000,
But you are now ignoring the 14th amendment.
If no one could get married under the law then we would all be equal under the law. Since some people can get married then all people can get married. Restricting the race or gender means there is no equality.
0 Replies
 
 

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