1
   

Pentagon Says Bush Records of Service Were Destroyed

 
 
Reply Thu 8 Jul, 2004 11:53 pm
Perhaps other Guardsmen on duty during the time periods in question could request copies of their records. It would be interesting to learn that theirs could be found and only George Bush's are missing due to "accidental" destruction. ---BBB

July 9, 2004 - New York Times
Pentagon Says Bush Records of Service Were Destroyed
By RALPH BLUMENTHAL

HOUSTON, July 8 - Military records that could help establish President Bush's whereabouts during his disputed service in the Texas Air National Guard more than 30 years ago have been inadvertently destroyed, according to the Pentagon.

It said the payroll records of "numerous service members," including former First Lt. Bush, had been ruined in 1996 and 1997 by the Defense Finance and Accounting Service during a project to salvage deteriorating microfilm. No back-up paper copies could be found, it added in notices dated June 25.

The destroyed records cover three months of a period in 1972 and 1973 when Mr. Bush's claims of service in Alabama are in question.

The disclosure appeared to catch some experts, both pro-Bush and con, by surprise. Even the retired lieutenant colonel who studied Mr. Bush's records for the White House, Albert C. Lloyd of Austin, said it came as news to him.

The loss was announced by the Defense Department's Office of Freedom of Information and Security Review in letters to The New York Times and other news organizations that for nearly half a year have sought Mr. Bush's complete service file under the open-records law.

There was no mention of the loss, for example, when White House officials released hundreds of pages of the President's military records last February in an effort to stem Democratic accusations that he was "AWOL" for a time during his commitment to fly at home in the Air National Guard during the Vietnam War.

Dan Bartlett, the White House communications director who has said that the released records confirmed the president's fulfillment of his National Guard commitment, did not return two calls for a response.

The disclosure that the payroll records had been destroyed came in a letter signed by C. Y. Talbott, chief of the Pentagon's Freedom of Information Office, who forwarded a CD-Rom of hundreds of records that Mr. Bush has previously released, along with images of punch-card records. Sixty pages of Mr. Bush's medical file and some other records were excluded on privacy grounds, Mr. Talbott wrote.

He said in the letter that he could not provide complete payroll records, explaining, "The Defense Finance and Accounting Service (DFAS) has advised of the inadvertent destruction of microfilm containing certain National Guard payroll records."

He went on: "In 1996 and 1997, DFAS engaged with limited success in a project to salvage deteriorating microfilm. During this process the microfilm payroll records of numerous service members were damaged, including from the first quarter of 1969 (Jan. 1 to March 31) and the third quarter of 1972 (July 1 to Sept. 30). President Bush's payroll records for these two quarters were among the records destroyed. Searches for backup paper copies of the missing records were unsuccessful."

Mr. Talbott's office would not respond to questions, saying that further information could be provided only through another Freedom of Information application.

But Bryan Hubbard, a spokesman for Defense finance agency in Denver, said the destruction occurred as the office was trying to unspool 2,000-foot rolls of fragile microfilm. Mr. Hubbard said he did not know how many records were lost or why the loss had not been announced before.

For Mr. Bush, the 1969 period when he was training to be a pilot, is not in dispute. But in May 1972, he moved to Alabama to work on a political campaign and, he has said, to perform his Guard service there for a year. But other Guard officers have said they had no recollection of ever seeing him there. The most evidence the White House has been able to find are records showing Mr. Bush was paid for six days in October and November 1972, without saying where, and the record of a dental exam at a Montgomery, Ala., air base on Jan. 6, 1973.

On June 22, The Associated Press filed suit in federal court in New York against the Pentagon and the Air Force to gain access to all the president's military records.

The lost payroll records stored in Denver might have answered some questions about whether he fulfilled his legal commitment, critics who have written about the subject said in interviews.

"Those are records we've all been interested in," said James Moore, author of a recent book, "Bush's War for Re-election," which takes a critical view of Mr. Bush's service record. "I think it's curious that the microfiche could resolve what days Mr. Bush worked and what days he was paid, and suddenly that is gone."

But Mr. Moore said the president could still authorize the release of other withheld records that would shed light on his service record.

Among the issues still disputed is why, according to released records, Mr. Bush was suspended from flying on Aug. 1, 1972. The reason cited in the records is "failure to accomplish annual medical examination."

Mr. Bartlett, the White House spokesman, said in February that Mr. Bush felt he did not need to take the physical as he was no longer flying planes in Alabama. Mr. Lloyd, the retired colonel who studied the records, gave a similar explanation in an interview.

But Mr. Lloyd said he was surprised to be told of the destruction of the pay records that might have resolved some questions.
  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,830 • Replies: 31
No top replies

 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jul, 2004 05:38 am
I see ...
0 Replies
 
Redheat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jul, 2004 06:18 am
Just read this.

Isn't it shocking what happens when paper meets shredder? I'm confused though which records are these? I thought they were in Daddy's library and what records were destroyed prior to his running for Gov?

The most amazing part of this story will be that millions of Americans will say "Isn't that too bad". I mean could it be anymore blantant? Why don't the Bushies just stand up and say " we destroyed them now prove me wrong!..............nanananananana"
0 Replies
 
JustanObserver
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jul, 2004 09:53 pm
Well, isn't that con-VEEEEEEN-yant?

/Church lady from classic SNL
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jul, 2004 10:05 pm
This has just driven another forum I frequent mad. Mostly general contractors in the U.S., most republican, many veterans. They are finally saying that they don't believe this. They know how important those records are for veterans. They do not believe that any records other than George W. Bush's are missing. It's been interesting to watch them spin.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jul, 2004 01:19 am
Well, this had been in the news yesterday here.
Contretemps sometimes happen, isn't it? :wink:
0 Replies
 
kuvasz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jul, 2004 07:22 am
Marinus van der Lubbe strikes again, Walt? or was it a GOP avatar of Winston Smith doing his duty to the State?

Bush has used the "the dog ate my homework" defense so often now that his dog must have the digestive system of a termite
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jul, 2004 08:15 am
Didn't I hear on the news, the other day, that part of Kerry's military record, also, disappeared?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jul, 2004 08:15 am
kuvasz wrote:
Marinus van der Lubbe strikes again, Walt? or was it a GOP avatar of Winston Smith doing his duty to the State?

Bush has used the "the dog ate my homework" defense so often now that his dog must have the digestive system of a termite
:wink:
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jul, 2004 08:45 am
Dogs Of War ate my homework......
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jul, 2004 08:50 am
Miller wrote:
Didn't I hear on the news, the other day, that part of Kerry's military record, also, disappeared?


Got any references, Miller? That bit hasn't hit the news that I can access. In fact, what I can find is lots and lots and lots of information on Kerry in the military - both pro and con - but nothing on any portion of his military record disappearing.
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jul, 2004 08:56 am
Miller wrote:
Didn't I hear on the news, the other day, that part of Kerry's military record, also, disappeared?


Perhaps on Radio Free Mars.....
0 Replies
 
doglover
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jul, 2004 08:58 am
ehBeth wrote:
This has just driven another forum I frequent mad. Mostly general contractors in the U.S., most republican, many veterans. They are finally saying that they don't believe this. They know how important those records are for veterans. They do not believe that any records other than George W. Bush's are missing. It's been interesting to watch them spin.


Remember when a large sum of money was offered to anyone who could remember/prove that GW was in the service when he said he was? Nobody came forward. Rolling Eyes

This dishonest and disgusting man is the leader of our country. God, I can't wait for November.
0 Replies
 
doglover
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jul, 2004 08:59 am
Miller wrote:
Didn't I hear on the news, the other day, that part of Kerry's military record, also, disappeared?


You must have been listening to Rush again Miller. :wink:
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jul, 2004 09:10 am
So, I try a google search : Kerry + military records + missing : and what do I get?

Quote:
Key Bush Guard Records Destroyed

Ralph Blumenthal writes in the New York Times today about a surprising disclosure regarding military records that journalists were hoping could settle the controversy over President Bush's whereabouts during his disputed service in the Texas Air National Guard.

The Pentagon says they've been inadvertently destroyed.

A letter from the Pentagon "said the payroll records of 'numerous service members,' including former First Lt. Bush, had been ruined in 1996 and 1997 by the Defense Finance and Accounting Service during a project to salvage deteriorating microfilm. No back-up paper copies could be found, it added in notices dated June 25.

"The destroyed records cover three months of a period in 1972 and 1973 when Mr. Bush's claims of service in Alabama are in question. . . .

"The loss was announced by the Defense Department's Office of Freedom of Information and Security Review in letters to The New York Times and other news organizations that for nearly half a year have sought Mr. Bush's complete service file under the open-records law."

Can't remember what's at issue? As Blumenthal explains, in May 1972, Bush "moved to Alabama to work on a political campaign and, he has said, to perform his Guard service there for a year. But other Guard officers have said they had no recollection of ever seeing him there. The most evidence the White House has been able to find are records showing Mr. Bush was paid for six days in October and November 1972, without saying where, and the record of a dental exam at a Montgomery, Ala., air base on Jan. 6, 1973."

A surprise, indeed. Heck, just two weeks ago in an interview for this column, Associated Press Assistant General Counsel Dave Tomlin told me the AP has been informed that the microfilm in question did indeed exist.


here ... and more of the same ... nothing on Kerry's records
0 Replies
 
doglover
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jul, 2004 09:13 am
Two thumbs up Beth. Cool

Miller...care to comment?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jul, 2004 09:24 am
On this CBS-site you'll find all known about this, including some links to scanned documents (as PDF!).
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jul, 2004 09:30 am
Thanks, Walter. As I'm sure you noticed, that link leads to a page that has a further link to .... a story about the release of Kerry's Navy records back in April. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jul, 2004 09:37 am
I didn't edit that site, ehBeth, honestly not! :wink:
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jul, 2004 09:55 am
Somehow this reminds me of the missing portions of the Nixon tapes. Golly, I hope my university records haven't been inadvertanly destroyed. I'd better inquire now about diplomas and grade records today! I had no problem getting my birth records from the L.A. city hall -- I wonder what Bush's looks like? Do you think it would mention the silver spoon? Of course, one can counter that Kerry married into money. Got news for you, so did George Washington.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Pentagon Says Bush Records of Service Were Destroyed
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 10/01/2024 at 04:42:09