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Thu 8 Jul, 2004 10:48 pm
A note to all my brethren in Christ, I thank God for you and your witness. I’m so grateful to God that I am able to communicate to you through this computer, I hope that someday that we and all of our fellow brethren in Christ Jesus will meet either on earth or in heaven someday. I know that the love for Christ has set in your heart to preach the good news and to plant seeds of faith to whom ever you come across. I do not want to cause you to stumble my friends, not in any way or form. I beseech you that you stop judging who is and who is not going to heaven.
Whenever you tell anyone that “unless they believe in Christ, you will go to hell” then you have sinned. Why? Because you have just condemned that person in the name of Christ. Never approach anyone with a proud attitude like that, Jesus set a better example for you to be, and even He said that not all who say “Lord, Lord” will be saved.
~Yoda
You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment? Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance? But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God "will give to each person according to what he has done." To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.
Romans 2: 1-11
What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God's faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written:
…"So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge."
But if our unrighteousness brings out God's righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world?
Romans 3: 3-6
Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.
You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
Romans 5: 1-11
But will Heaven be fun? Will I still be able to get laid? How are the bars - are they trendy? Will there be internet access? Cable? I may sound cynical but I just can't stand the thought of eternity listening to piped-in Harp music!
I saw a poll that said 88% of people thought they were going to heaven.
But the same people said only 46% of their acquaintances were going to heaven.
Why the descrepancy?
NickFun wrote:But will Heaven be fun? Will I still be able to get laid? How are the bars - are they trendy? Will there be internet access? Cable? I may sound cynical but I just can't stand the thought of eternity listening to piped-in Harp music!
That’s actually quite an intelligent question, what is heaven like?
Truthfully, I do not know, but from what I get out of my study of scripture, heaven will be much like earth, there will be those that are great, and there will be those that will be not. It will be a monarchy rule, with people who have authority over others, but God will be the ultimate authority. There will be people who get to be with God in heaven, and there will be those who will not, I’m not speaking of those that are in hell.
No, I’m not saying purgatory, purgatory is not mentioned in scripture. But there are gates and angels in heaven that keep people from the presence of God, but these people that are kept are not they who scripture said will be cast into the lake of fire. They who are kept from the presence of God are the least. And as scripture says, it’s better to be the least in heaven then the greatest in hell.
I have ideas of what I believe heaven will be like, but until I am there, I’m not sure what it will be. What I do know is this, God meets everyone on their level. Heaven could likely be the way whomever dreamed it to be, I believe God will create it that way for their own reality, for their conscience sake.
tcis wrote:I saw a poll that said 88% of people thought they were going to heaven.
But the same people said only 46% of their acquaintances were going to heaven.
Why the descrepancy?
There has been a false doctrine preached in the church for many of years, and it’s a very touchy subject. But because there is an authority in the church who believes this way and preaches the scripture out of context, most Christians have adapted to that belief and set it in stone. What I am talking of is this, “whoever doesn’t claim Jesus as their Lord and savior will perish”.
That is a lie.
Let me ask you, who was Enoch? Was he not a man? When the bible said Enoch walked with God, what religion was he? Who was Noah? What religion was Noah when God spoke to him and warned him of the pending doom? Who was Job? What religion was Job when God called him his servant from the far east? Who was Abram? (Abraham) What religion was Abram when God saw Abram’s righteousness and blessed him to be the father of many nations? And who was the thief on the cross who died next to Jesus? Did not Jesus promise him that he would be in paradise with Jesus solely because he had a repented heart?
When we make God a religion and curse and condemn people in the name of Jesus who wish not to believe in Jesus because of His “so-called” followers, who in God’s name gave us that authority? God is not a religion, He is an existence, He has a will and He is just and able to judge every man, woman, and child with His righteous and fair judgment.
Do we not believe that we will not be judged by our works? Salvation is given by grace, not by works, this is certain, but we are still judged by our works.
So what if heaven doesnt exist? Then what will you do?
shewolfnm wrote:So what if heaven doesnt exist? Then what will you do?
I guess "nothing" would be the appropriate answer.
Most of the world believes there is a heaven, and for the most part that thought keeps most of us in check. When God is made the ultimate authority in our conscience, then we adapt a fear of Him knowing that He is our judge and always watching over us. With this thought in mind we become more at peace with ourselves, and with our neighbor.
For many of us, this earth will be the only heaven we'll ever know, for the rest, this planet will be the only hell. It depends on your attitude and what you make of it, it also depends on the attitudes of others as well.
Finally, nice sig! :wink:
brother good for you
Ok great point Christians need to focus on themselves and not go around wishing people to hell I agree. The fact is if the Christians of the world did as Christ said we would be having a lot more success in fulfilling the great commission. I really admire your use of scripture and the fact that you had the guts to preach it. I have been to many of these forums and want to share my faith but I felt like I should wait, you have really encouraged me to be on fire for Christ even on the web thanks.
Just curious; are you mainline Baptist? cuz usually no always the baptist I know think that telling a person he is going to hell will fix everything. I happen to be a Calvinist; I believe this is the most best way for me to deepen my walk with Christ. I do not debate others brothers or sisters about how they view the Bible unless they hold to absolute heresy. I believe that the body of Christ should not be divided over little doctrinal differences but still I would like to know what denomination your from?
God bless I will look forward to your future topics and posts
Mike in Michigan
Re: brother good for you
disenter512 wrote:Ok great point Christians need to focus on themselves and not go around wishing people to hell I agree. The fact is if the Christians of the world did as Christ said we would be having a lot more success in fulfilling the great commission. I really admire your use of scripture and the fact that you had the guts to preach it. I have been to many of these forums and want to share my faith but I felt like I should wait, you have really encouraged me to be on fire for Christ even on the web thanks.
Just curious; are you mainline Baptist? cuz usually no always the baptist I know think that telling a person he is going to hell will fix everything. I happen to be a Calvinist; I believe this is the most best way for me to deepen my walk with Christ. I do not debate others brothers or sisters about how they view the Bible unless they hold to absolute heresy. I believe that the body of Christ should not be divided over little doctrinal differences but still I would like to know what denomination your from?
God bless I will look forward to your future topics and posts
Mike in Michigan
That was a very warm post, thank you for encouraging me even more.
I hope I don’t disappoint you, I was borne and raised Mormon. But, I denounced that creed 12 years ago and started attending a Pentecostal church. I later quit the Pentecostal church because of its un-biblical practices and for other personal reasons. I know longer attend church much, though I have been to my friends church 90 miles away from where I live just recently. He’s the pastor that educated others and myself in God’s word in the most holiest fashion I’ve ever been a whiteness too. His Church is in his home, we sit in his garage for the service. I still love to read and study the bible often, and sharing the truth of the scripture when it’s possible.
I guess you can say I’m a non-denominational Christian, though I get discouraged with labels. I prefer to be known as someone who believes in Jesus Christ and for the reasons of Him crucified. I believe in Jesus resurrected, I believe in a triune God, (Father, Son, & Holy Ghost) and I believe God is One. I believe in His scripture, that His scripture was inspired by God and His words breathed wisdom into the minds of it’s authors.
I believe God calls every man, woman, and child to live a moral life that consist of believing in God, loving your neighbor as you love yourself, and to rejoice always giving reason to celebrate life in every way.
~Dustin
(from somewhere in the heart of California)
Good luck to you Dustin. I hope you find a Christian community that allows you room to express and grow in your faith whether or not all agree with it. I have such a community and it is a great comfort. I think all Christians benefit from such.
As to what heaven is like, I don't have a clue. I believe we'll step out of this life right into the next, however. The only thing I've asked to take with me is a list of questions I want to ask God
I can say I hope there is laughter and horses and guilt-free lemon merengue pie there. The idea of floating around on fluffy pink clouds strumming on little harps doesn't quite do it for me.
As to who will be there with me, I do not believe anyone but God gets to decide that. And I suspect He's pretty lenient.
Foxfyre wrote:Good luck to you Dustin. I hope you find a Christian community that allows you room to express and grow in your faith whether or not all agree with it. I have such a community and it is a great comfort. I think all Christians benefit from such.
As to what heaven is like, I don't have a clue. I believe we'll step out of this life right into the next, however. The only thing I've asked to take with me is a list of questions I want to ask God
I can say I hope there is laughter and horses and guilt-free lemon merengue pie there. The idea of floating around on fluffy pink clouds strumming on little harps doesn't quite do it for me.
As to who will be there with me, I do not believe anyone but God gets to decide that. And I suspect He's pretty lenient.
I wish I could find one in the area I live, but the few I have attended here seemed like a baron wasteland. I see that their heart is in the right place, but the gospel is not taught to the masses. They more glorify their church, and the speaker reads as to glorify himself for the eyes of the people. Mostly, they read one sentence of the bible then base their weeks experienced on that one passage.
I’m a traditionalist, when I go to church I want the service rooted in God’s word, with paragraphs read that teaches us how to make the right choices through out our daily lives. I want to hear the Word of God preached from the Old and the New Testament, in it’s fullest context, not just one sentence here, one sentence there to appease the ears of the listener. I want a challenge from the speaker, I want him to read from the scripture so deeply, that I want to rush home and study even further of what God spoke to my spirit during that service.
And for me, I am a very judgmental person when it comes to the church, I demand more then they can give, and for me, that is my sin. (amongst many others)
The church in the garage 90 miles from me, is the only church that I’ve been to that meets my demands. He was my Pastor of a bible study group at the Pentecostal church I once attended, he broke away from that congregation for many of the same reasons as I. I hope that some day, God will make it possible for me to move back to my Pastor’s area in San Jose, cause San Jose is extremely expensive area and I don’t make that kind of income.
Yes and in your area (I preseme the SF Bay or Monterey Bay area?) there is a scarcity of good churches. But don't give up. I think for the thinking person, there is no such thing as the perfect church. If you find a supportive, accepting community that may be all you can expect. And if you aren't being fed sufficiently, form your own small study group with other like minded people and do your own thing on the side. I can send you a wonderful format for that that has been field tested with great success.
I believe in Christ but have practically no faith in 99% of the people who claim to be Christians.
My great hope is that some holier than thou dickweed like most people (not all) claiming the high road because of their faith will arrive at the mansion that God has prepared them for eternity and discover that I am to be their next door neighbor. This thought sustains me through tough times. :wink:
Foxfyre wrote:Yes and in your area (I preseme the SF Bay or Monterey Bay area?) there is a scarcity of good churches. But don't give up. I think for the thinking person, there is no such thing as the perfect church. If you find a supportive, accepting community that may be all you can expect. And if you aren't being fed sufficiently, form your own small study group with other like minded people and do your own thing on the side. I can send you a wonderful format for that that has been field tested with great success.
I would greatly appreciate that.
I am a firm believer in "Where two or more are gathered..."
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:My great hope is that some holier than thou dickweed like most people (not all) claiming the high road because of their faith will arrive at the mansion that God has prepared them for eternity and discover that I am to be their next door neighbor. This thought sustains me through tough times.
I'm just hoping to get a card-boared box down by the river.
ROFL, let's clarify that the second quote in Yoda's post was BPB's and not mine.
When you get a few folks together Yoda, PM me and I'll send you a simple outline with ground rules for a simple share group. If your group 'meshes', it can be quite a rewarding experience and satisfy all the yearnings you're feeling. Spiritually anyway.
Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:04 pm Post subject:
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"I believe in Christ but have practically no faith in 99% of the people who claim to be Christians. " Bi-polarbear
This is sad but true many people see being a Christian as a 2hour stint in a church Sunday morning. Or worse many believe that because their parents are Christians they are also. Being a Christian is a personal relationship with Christ. As long as you know where you stand with God that is all that matters. If a person wants to know where they stand before God they should examine themselves in light of God's law the Ten Commandments. All men have sinned. It is clear and simple that the punishment is death. The only way to be forgiven and escape death they need to repent and turn from sin and seek forgiveness. Christ is the way through which a person is cleansed and forgiven of all sin.
After a true conversion has taken place you should be able to trust 100% of real Christians. No one is perfect but someone who truly wants nothing more but to serve the Lord with their life will not act in ways that cause people to doubt their witness. "Not everyone that says Lord Lord will enter the Kingdom of heaven: but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matt. 7:21
Being a Christian is more then saying you are you have to prove and act like you are a follower of Jesus Chirst the living God.
Witness! How do you display your witness? Sugar and or vinegar?
How you going to spread your witness?
Quote:"I must preach the good news of the kingdom of God to the other towns also, because this is why I was sent. And He kept on preaching in the synagogues of Judah." Luke 4:42-44 NIV
Yoda wrote:When God is made the ultimate authority in our conscience, then we adapt a fear of Him knowing that He is our judge and always watching over us. With this thought in mind we become more at peace with ourselves, and with our neighbor.
dunno.... rather than instilling peace, I think this would tend to creep me out and set me on edge.
disenter512 wrote:All men have sinned. It is clear and simple that the punishment is death.
"Sin lies only in hurting other people unnecessarily. All other 'sins' are invented nonsense. (Hurting yourself is not sinful -- just stupid.)"
~LL
I disagree Thor. My definition of sin is that which harms yourself and/or others.
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