1
   

Kaaba a Hindu Temple

 
 
glad to be muslim
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jul, 2004 07:43 am
And how ridicules to have a poll for it? Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
dauer
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2004 03:42 pm
gtbm: tanakh is an acronym for what would be in English the torah, prophets, and writings. T is Torah N is Nevi'im K is Ketuvim. I was just clarifying that Muhammad could not read or write and that he claimed to understand what Tanakh was supposed to be better than the people who studied it and held it to be the word of God.

I will clarify what you asked abot EIS.

He said the Koran is a mishmash -- mixture -- of midrashic material and folklore. Midrash is basically stories the rabbis told to explain inconsistencies in the text and also to teach lessons. They used biblical characters. Some of the stories are quite possibly much older and were included in rabbinic literature as part of oral traditions. Folklore, I think, is pretty much the same thing. Unless he's talking about the elements of the other religions of the area that got mixed into Islam. I think he is saying that midrash and folklore make up the koran. I'm not agreeing with him. I don't know enough to say either way. I'm just clarifying for you.

He said Mohamed was a Jew. This idea is fascinating, but I don't think it can be proven. I doubt there's enough evidence to make me stop doubting this theory. But enough evidence would end my doubting the possibility that this could be true.

Dauer
0 Replies
 
glad to be muslim
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2004 06:10 pm
Torah is also the Arabic name for the book. Yes we believe that torah was/is word of God as well as Bible.

Was/is = we believe that parts of both been altered and parts remain the same.

Of course we also believe that Quran is words of god?

Folklore? Very strange indeed. What would he call the stories of Mousa (the prophet, I can't get his English name) and Israelis?
The Quran has many stories and prophet Mousa has been mentioned a lot.
His story when he killed man and then run away to Yemen
His story when God talked with him and started his task.
His story with pharaoh
His story with Al Keder
His story and theCow.And many others.

Also stories of other prophets with the Israeli.
Jesus Born
Jesus speak as infant, Others about Him
Abraham and his story with disbelieves
Abraham and his story with building back Kaaba
And others.
Noah story and the ship
And many others……..

Can you consider that a folklore?
I consider that a history, a thousands of years.

Quote:
He said Mohamed was a Jew. This idea is fascinating, but I don't think it can be proven. I doubt there's enough evidence to make me stop doubting this theory. But enough evidence would end my doubting the possibility that this could be true

He is Arabic, pure Arabic.

But what happened was as follow:

Jews knew about the last prophet and they could guess where he would appear (place) from Torah. There were signs for the place. But those signs were not enough.

Jews Moved to Madina (where prophet could appear from), Jews hold the trade markets a Madena (Yethreb before) but they could not take the leadership from Arabs. They kept telling Arabs of Madina that the last prophet time is near and when he shows up we are going to take leadership. Arabs at that time had no idea about any thing called prophet because they never had one.

Muhammad city was Mecca and not Madena (they missed something here that the sings of madena indicates that from here he will start the strong Islam, they didn't mean that he would born in Madina)

When Muhammad started asking for Islam at Mecca he was rejected hardly and also they tried to kill him many times. He tried else where (Tae'f) but also rejected. Until he met with few men were coming from madina and asked them for Islam. As I said before, they were hearing about the last prophet from Jews and they heard some of characteristics. They believed him and they went back to Madina asking people to Islam. Most of the people of Madina became Muslims before Muhammad arrived there and thus Madina became the center of Islam.

As you can read from above, Jews helped Arabs to identify the last prophet while their intentions were different. Jews thought that the last prophet would be from them but that did not happen and that was the start of "no peace" between us and them

That is our story.
0 Replies
 
dauer
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2004 06:46 pm
gtb, that stuff in Medina sounds a lot like they were waiting for the messiah, not a prophet. Prophet is navi in hebrew. Messiah is m'shiakh. Throughout Jewish history there have been times where people believed the m'shiakh would come, and each time they were wrong. The prophesies were not fulfilled.

It is possible that the people had overheard some of this talk, as you have said, but it sounds as if they did not hear all of it. A messiah and a prophet are two different things. The messiah will create world peace, gather all of Israel from all corners of the earth, etc.

What word or words do you have in Arabic for prophet?

edit: please use english characters. I cannot read Arabic.
0 Replies
 
glad to be muslim
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 05:06 am
Quote:
The messiah will create world peace, gather all of Israel from all corners of the earth, etc.


first of all, Messiah is the name we call for Jesus. Is that strange for you?

We call him Messiah Issa Bin Mariam.

Second, I told you what they were saying to Arabs of Madina at that time. We are waiting for the last prophet. It was mentioned in the bible and other books but the Jews removed it.

It was written that there will be "last prophet after Jesus". Quran mention this story of Jesus saying to Israel there will be another prophet after me.
Jews came to Prophet Muhammad and asked him questions, to check if he was the last prophet, and Muhammad (peace be upon him) answered them all.
Questions were about for example, the Human creation at womb, but they insisted to disbelieve in him.

What is awaited Messiah for Jews? I think you have answered that, but you , maybe, don't know that Muslims also have awaited Messiah?

But our awaited Messiah is not what Jews believe in, ours is the same Jesus (Issa Bin Mariam).

I think you have in you bible , that a man will show up claiming he is the Messiah and you call him "the Lair". That what I have been told by Christian friend.

Again, we believe in "the lair" but he is not going to claim that he is Jesus; he is going to claim that he is "God". And for "the lair", Juses* going back to kill him. Jesus also going to rule the earth and spread peace all over it, not peace for Jews and collecting them, as we believe.

There is a very long story about the lair and the awaited Messiah. But we have been told that place that the awaited Messiah is coming back, which is not Madina.

From the words above, you can see we are not separated part from Jews and Christians, our religion is not like the Hindu or Buddhists , our believe are very close to you, we believe in the same events and characters (although with different stories sometimes)

*Jesus in of Islam was never crossed, but the man who betrayed him, God made him looks like Jesus. (there was a cross event, but it wasn't Jesus). God took Jesus up to the sky and he is coming back after several events (awaited Messaih). It could be close.

Quote:

What word or words do you have in Arabic for prophet?


edit/added:

we have 1 word for prophet and another for Messenger.

1-Nabi (prophet)


I have forgotten to tell you that Messiah is an Arabic word (it means something like scanning) and is not a name. I don't know if there is also such a word in Hebrew.
The Lair is also called Messiah in Islam. Both Jesus and Lair were called Messiah for different reasons of course.

First one Messiah Issa Bin Mariam
Second one Messiah "Dagal"
Lair in Arabic = Dagal/Kazab/etc…
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 05:21 am
Now I'm really confused

The bible says there will be a last prophet.

Christians say it was Jesus, but he wasnt a prophet, he was God.

Muslims say he is still on his way, but the last prophet in any case was not Jesus but Mohammed.

Jews say the Messiah is coming to do his bit for Israel, and the Christians also say he's coming (for the second time) to do his bit for Christians (only).

Also from time to time there are false prophets and people who prophesy that prophets will come, but they are liars.

Isn't it about time you all gave up these fairy tale nonsenses and used your God-given brains for a change?
0 Replies
 
glad to be muslim
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 06:02 am
Now I'm really confused
Quote:

The bible says there will be a last prophet.

so my words are correct, Bible said there will be last prophet and that was Muhammad.

Quote:

Christians say it was Jesus, but he wasnt a prophet, he was God.


This is a confusion, Christian and Jews made, we believe he was just a prophet (but not the last one)

Quote:

Muslims say he is still on his way, but the last prophet in any case was not Jesus but Mohammed.

We don't say he is still on his way. Muhammad is the last prophet. Jesus come back dose not mean he is the last prophet. He is coming back to rule the earth, spread peace, kill the lair and to follow Muhammad religion (Islam).

We don't have any confusion at all, others do.

There are signs for Jesus come back, many have occurred and still waiting for others. Believe it or not , the International Boycott of Iraq was one of them. It was mentioned 1400 years ago by prophet.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 09:01 am
Quote:
We don't have any confusion at all, others do.


I think you make my point very well. You are right. Everyone else has got it wrong. A recipe for disaster.

What did Mohammed say about the complimentary nature of the electron? Oh sorry of course he was illiterate, and quantum mechanics somewhat in the future.

But if Mohammed had studied physics, would he have pronounced the electron to be a particle, or a wave? Or would he have banned quantum physics as un Islamic?
0 Replies
 
dauer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 01:30 pm
Jews don't say he will make peace for Israel. Jews say he will make peace for the world. He will also gather all of Israel back together.

gtbm:

I see that prophet is similar in both languages. Messiah is very different though. M'shiakh refers to an annointed person, like a leader. I don't know what you mean by lair. I've never heard or seen that term. It may be from the christian bible. They've got more books and the ones we share, theirs are different.

Jesus has no role whatsoever in Judaism. He's not important. His role in Jewish religion is the same as Siddhartha's role in Jewish religion. It would make sense to me that you would call him messiah though. I read early muslims were influenced a little initially by Christian teachings. I don't know of any prophesy of a last prophet after the m'shiakh. I just wonder how Muslims consider him to be annointed. A m'shiakh is annointed with oil. Christians, I believe, argue it was after he died, but that was the way all bodies were treated. It has nothing to do with being a m'shiakh.


I just want to reiterate this Jewish view: the m'shiakh will come and will just be a person like anyone else. A number of things will happen including world peace and the return of all of the exiled Jews to Israel. We don't have a lair.

Sorry. I just find people often mix Christian views into Jewish ones without realizing it.

I have to say based on what I know about Islam that it seems more similar to Judaism than Christianity. And this may be because it is from the same general area or because there aren't tons of Romans adding to Muslim thought. Christianity often seems pagan to me, but I don't think I could say that about Islam.

Dauer
0 Replies
 
glad to be muslim
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 04:39 pm
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:


What did Mohammed say about the complimentary nature of the electron? Oh sorry of course he was illiterate, and quantum mechanics somewhat in the future.

But if Mohammed had studied physics, would he have pronounced the electron to be a particle, or a wave? Or would he have banned quantum physics as un Islamic?


Is this Ironic statement?
Read this instead….

Quote:

Among those who were taken by surprise is Dr. Joe Leigh Simpson, Chairman of the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, and Professor of Molecular and Human Genetics at the Baylor College of Medicine, Houston. When we first met him, Professor Simpson insisted on verifying the Qur'aan and the Sunnah. We were able, however, to remove his suspicion. We presented to him the text outlining the development of the embryo. We proved to him that the Qur'aan informs us that the hereditary and the chromosomal make-up of the new being take place only after a successful union between the sperm and the ovum. As we know, these chromosomes contain all the characteristics which the new human being will have such as the color of the eyes, skin, hair, etc

During the first 40 days of gestation, all the body parts and organs are completely, though consecutively formed.

The Prophet Muhammad, (sallAllahu ‘alaihi wa sallam), has informed us in a hadeeth that: In every one of you, all components of your creation are gathered together in your mothers’ womb by 40 days. (Narrated in Saheeh Muslim and Al-Bukhaari).

In another Hadeeth, Prophet Muhammad (sallAllahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) said: When forty-two nights have passed over the drop (nutfah), Allah sends an angel to it, who shapes it and makes its ears, eyes, skin, flesh and bones. Then he says, “O Lord, is it male or female?” and your Lord decides what he wishes.

Professor Simpson studied these two hadeeths extensively, noting that the first 40 days constitute a clearly distinguishable stage of embryo genesis. He was particularly impressed by the absolute precision and accuracy of those hadeeths. Then during one of the conferences which he attended he gave the following opinion: "So that the two hadeeths that have been noted can provide us with a specific time table for the main embryological development before 40 days. Again, the point had been made repeatedly by other speakers this morning that these hadeeths could not have been obtained on the basis of the scientific knowledge that was available at the time of their recording."


ohhhh look what I found, physics

Quote:

In ancient times a well-known theory by the name of Theory of Atomism was widely accepted. This theory was originally proposed by the Greeks, in particular by a man called Democritus, who lived about 23 centuries ago. Democritus and the people that came after him, assumed that the smallest unit of matter was the atom. The Arabs used to believe the same. The Arabic word dharrah most commonly meant an atom. In recent times modern science has discovered that it is possible to split even an atom. That the atom can be split further is a development of the 20th century. Fourteen centuries ago this concept would have appeared unusual even to an Arab. For him the dharrah was the limit beyond which one could not go. The following Quraanic verse however, refuses to acknowledge this limit:

The Unbelievers say, Never to us will come The Hour: say, Nay! But most surely, By my Lord, it will come Upon you by Him Who knows the unseen From Whom is not hidden The least little atom In the Heavens or on earth: Nor is there anything less Than that, or greater, but Is in the Record Perspicuous. [Al-Quraan 34:3]


would you like to read more?
Astronomy
Geography
Geology
Oceanology
Medicine
Biology
And more ,

and yes Muhammad was illiterate.
0 Replies
 
glad to be muslim
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 04:42 pm
dauer wrote:

I see that prophet is similar in both languages. Messiah is very different though. M'shiakh refers to an annointed person, like a leader. I don't know what you mean by lair. I've never heard or seen that term. It may be from the christian bible. They've got more books and the ones we share, theirs are different.


M'shikh is also the name of Messiah Dagal (the second one). We believe that Jews are going to follow him. At one of Prophet's hadteeth, he mentioned that 70,000 of Jews are going to follow him from Asfahan (a city in Iran).
M'shiskh in the language comes from Meskh, he is named by that because his right eye is totally damaged (Meskh could mean at Arabic , damaged face)

About the lair, the friend is Egyptian Christian friend (I remember she told me that she is Orthodox) maybe it is only at their books. ( I have forgotten to mention bible , no it is not at Jews books)
But I think she referred to me that what were are talking about, Meshiskh is the "lair" for them.


Quote:

It would make sense to me that you would call him messiah though


Quran dose call him messiah and one of the reasons he was called Messiah is that he used to "scan" with his hands over peoples' skins (those had skin diseases) to cure them with the will of God. Messiah means scanner or scanning in the language,

It is not we call him that because we have been influenced by Jews or Christians or anyone.

Quote:
I have to say based on what I know about Islam that it seems more similar to Judaism than Christianity.

we believe that all the 3 religion came from one source. That why they have similar things (Heaven, Hell, Holy book, prophet, sin, grace, etc..) but we also believe that Judaism and Christianity have been changed.
0 Replies
 
glad to be muslim
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 04:43 pm
duplicate thread
0 Replies
 
dauer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 06:17 pm
Judaism does not have heaven and hell in the way that Christianity does. It is very different. The closest thing is the rabbinic idea, which says that there is a place most all go to that is like a forge. There we somehow experience what we have done to others throughout our lives, possibly empathically. It reshapes us. This goes on for no more than 12 months. At that time if the soul has not been transformed it is extinguished. Everyone who is not extinguished, being most everyone who ever lives, then goes on to a good place.

I have been told this is where the Catholic idea of purgatory comes from. But I don't know anything about purgatory so I can't comment.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2004 10:29 am
Try the M25
0 Replies
 
dauer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2004 11:06 am
What's that, Steve?
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2004 12:07 pm
Purgatory is the London orbital motorway, designated the M25. Smile or should that be Sad
0 Replies
 
glad to be muslim
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2004 04:43 pm
Quote:

Judaism does not have heaven and hell in the way that Christianity does. It is very different. The closest thing is the rabbinic idea, which says that there is a place most all go to that is like a forge.


I must say I was not aware of that.

@ Steve (as 41oo), what don't you give me answer of what I wrote about modern science in Islam please.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2004 12:19 pm
Sorry Glad to be Muslim, missed that.

Ask the question again I will attempt to answer.
0 Replies
 
glad to be muslim
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2004 12:33 pm
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Sorry Glad to be Muslim, missed that.

Ask the question again I will attempt to answer.


you wrote

"I think you make my point very well. You are right. Everyone else has got it wrong. A recipe for disaster.

What did Mohammed say about the complimentary nature of the electron? Oh sorry of course he was illiterate, and quantum mechanics somewhat in the future.

But if Mohammed had studied physics, would he have pronounced the electron to be a particle, or a wave? Or would he have banned quantum physics as un Islamic? "

and i have answered that page before...
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2004 03:55 pm
Glad to be Muslim

ok I've found your answer now.

I don't know who you are or whether English is your first language (if its not I give you credit for your ability) but


Quote:
But if Mohammed had studied physics, would he have pronounced the electron to be a particle, or a wave? Or would he have banned quantum physics as un Islamic?

Is this Ironic statement?


no, its a question not a statement.

But you are right about a sense of irony. I was trying to explore an Islamic view of quantum physics. The idea that something can be at the same time neither one thing nor the other, but a bit of both.

You quote firstly an irrelevant passage about the development of the foetus then

Quote:
The Unbelievers say, Never to us will come The Hour: say, Nay! But most surely, By my Lord, it will come Upon you by Him Who knows the unseen From Whom is not hidden The least little atom In the Heavens or on earth: Nor is there anything less Than that, or greater, but Is in the Record Perspicuous.


What does this mean? That Mohammed had a view on splitting the atom? The concept of the atom had been around for a long while even by Mohammed's time, but necessarily being the smallest indivisible component of any element, I would be surprised if Mohammed thought about sub atomic particles.

In any case I was interested specifically in the dual wave/particle nature of small particles or packets of energy.

Mohammed was a progressive for his day and the religion he founded is certainly more interesting than Christianity or Judaism, but the fact is that he was trying to explain everything using the tools available to him at the time. Both our knowledge and our tools for research into knowledge have advanced immeasurably in the last 1400 years. Mohammed, Jesus, Moses should be seen as interesting historical figures, but of no particular relevance to modern man inquisitive about science or religion.

[And what really rattles my cage is when a religious person says they KNOW through FAITH that they are RIGHT and other people are therefore WRONG]
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

700 Inconsistencies in the Bible - Discussion by onevoice
Why do we deliberately fool ourselves? - Discussion by coincidence
Spirituality - Question by Miller
Oneness vs. Trinity - Discussion by Arella Mae
give you chills - Discussion by Bartikus
Evidence for Evolution! - Discussion by Bartikus
Evidence of God! - Discussion by Bartikus
One World Order?! - Discussion by Bartikus
God loves us all....!? - Discussion by Bartikus
The Preambles to Our States - Discussion by Charli
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 05/16/2024 at 12:00:14