Kaaba a Hindu Temple

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Many years ago, a researcher of my acquaintance explained to me that Islam was the hermit crab of religions....they move into an already-existing structure and claim it is their own creation. The truth of this is seen in Islamic history.

For example, devout Muslims will acknowledge that everything happening during the Haj was taking place for several thousand years BEFORE Mohamed.

Mohamed did two things:

1. He removed all except one idol from the Kaaba, and
2. He forced everyone to wear clothes (they formerly did the Haj while naked).

I know that some of you who buy into the twaddle of political correctness will balk at these ideas, but they're facts, and not conjecture.

Here's one example of scholarly research into the matter of identifying sites that have been stolen from their rightful owners, with the goal of returning it to them.

The Hindus are the proper owners of the Kaaba, along with thousands of other sites that were, historically, their rightful property before the firestorm of the Islamic empire swept over them.

Quote:

[Note: A recent archeological find in Kuwait unearthed a gold-plated
statue of the Hindu deity Ganesh. A Muslim resident of Kuwait requested
historical research material that can help explain the connection between Hindu civilisation and Arabia.]

Was the Kaaba Originally a Hindu Temple?
By P.N. Oak (Historian)

Was the Kaaba Originally a Hindu Temple?

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What constitutes rightful ownership?

Isn't Vatican City built on pagan Roman ruins? Should it be given back to a religion that no longer exists?

Much of Israel & Palestine used to belong to the Canaanites and later Philistine worshippers of Baal, Moloch, and others. What about those sites?

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Rightful ownership

Equus wrote:

What constitutes rightful ownership?

Isn't Vatican City built on pagan Roman ruins? Should it be given back to a religion that no longer exists?

Much of Israel & Palestine used to belong to the Canaanites and later Philistine worshippers of Baal, Moloch, and others. What about those sites?

These are common arguments amongst the sophistic intelligencia, and not without merit.

Are you saying that the entire history of Christian and Islamic Civilization is wrong in its massive documentation (against its own interests) of the fact that JEWS have, since the most ancient times, lived in, worked in, and owned the entire region of Israel (including its trans-Jordan component given, by the British, to the fake King Hussein)?

To answer your question, let's turn to the real authorities, starting with Rashi:

Quote:

Rashi's Commentary
The first Rashi commentary on the Bible (Genesis 1, 1) quotes the first word from the first verse from the first book of Moses "In the beginning" and asks:
Why does the Torah start with the story of the creation? It should have begun with the first commandment? And Rashi answers based on the verse in psalms 111 which states "the power of his works he declared to his nation in order to give them the heritage of the nations. If the nations accuse Israel of banditry for seizing the lands of the seven nations, Israel can respond, the entire universe belongs to G-d. He created it and He granted it to whomever He deemed fit. It was His wish to give it to them and it was His wish to take it from them and give it to us."

You can say (correctly) that HASHEM has given the land to the current occupying army of Arab terrorists.

But you should add the words "for the time being" because we're going to get it all back, sooner than you might want to believe.

VATICAN=PAGAN
The Vatican IS the center of the ancient pagan religion, so it's not necessary to worry about giving anything back, since the pagans never lost control of their property there.

By the way, the ground upon which the building you're in sits was almost certainly stolen from someone, either by invaders or bankers...not much difference is there?

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What is being discussed is called superimposition, a process where by a conquering people incorporate the sacred sites of a conquered population into their own sacred traditions. It is not uncommon and both Christians and Muslims have practiced it in the past.

The evidence presented for a Hindu predecessor for the Kaaba is fake and probably nothing more then Hindu nationalist propaganda.

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Acquiunk wrote:

What is being discussed is called superimposition, a process where by a conquering people incorporate the sacred sites of a conquered population into their own sacred traditions. It is not uncommon and both Christians and Muslims have practiced it in the past.

The evidence presented for a Hindu predecessor for the Kaaba is fake and probably nothing more then Hindu nationalist propaganda.

Other than the fact that you don't like their conclusions, how, exactly, is the scholarly work of Hindus a fake?

Are you aware that the Koran is a fake? That it's a sloppy mich-mash of Midrashic material and folk lore?

Are you aware that Mohamed was a Jew, that he married a Jewish woman and their children (Fatima) are Jews?

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It is unlike that he had Jewish ancestry but even if he did so what? One of the first signs of a fake being caught out is that he/she begins to throw antisemitic canards.

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I really couldn't care less about the Kaaba, but you EIS, interest me.
I noticed that your thread yesterday was locked and then banished.
And now that you are inviting more us/them versus You, the authentic Jew, controversy.
Why are so intent on being offensive or strident to say the least, while at the same time proudly proclaiming your authentic Judaism?

What exactly, is the point of your Kaaba philosophy?

Be well.

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My advice is to ignore anything posted by EIS. Nothing can be gained by a discussion with this person, except perhaps an upset stomach. Let him/her stew in their own bile.

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Quote:

we're going to get it all back

And how, EIS, are you going to do that?

Dream on eretz Yisrael

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too late Asherman, I spotted something Smile

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Moishe3rd wrote:

I noticed that your thread yesterday was locked and then banished.

And I still don't have an explanation for that one. To be precise: my post in the Forum Help why this post of EIS had been removed was removed too! And I still don't have an explanation!

Rolling Eyes

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Re: Rightful ownership

EIS wrote:

Are you saying that the entire history of Christian and Islamic Civilization is wrong in its massive documentation (against its own interests) of the fact that JEWS have, since the most ancient times, lived in, worked in, and owned the entire region of Israel.

...because we're going to get it all back, sooner than you might want to believe.

Yes, thats the ticket, lets give everything back to whoever was there first.
We're going to have to move a lot of people, though.

Where do you draw the line? For example:

Lets give USA back to the Indians, cause they lived and worked there first.
Give Canada & Mexico back to the Indians.
Give Australia and New Zealand back to the Aborigines.
Give South Africa back to the Africans.
Give all the European countries back to whoever was there first.
Give all of South America back to the Indians.
Give Central America back to the Indians.
Give Hawaii back to the native Hawaiians.

Oh yeah, and while we're doing all that, somewhere in there, give Israel back to the Jews. Oh wait, we already did that. And I'm not positive, there might have been some humans on that land prior to the Jews, so we better check that with archaeologists.

Now before we start tweaking Israel to get it just perfectly how someone wants it, why don't we solve the larger crimes above and give back these entire countries listed above first?

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Ad Hominems and Straw Man Arguments

Acquiunk wrote:

It is unlike that he had Jewish ancestry but even if he did so what? One of the first signs of a fake being caught out is that he/she begins to throw antisemitic canards.

Falastin Lo Hayya V'Lo Nivra!
Ummat Yis'reel Hiyya !

It seems (to me) that you can't deal with the facts, so you must believe that i'm a fake!

How very post-modern of you!

i have a written record of my Jewish ancestry. do you have a written record of your ancestry?

you're quick to throw this ad hominem insult into the discussion.

but i notice the moderators aren't locking you out and accusing you of violating the terms of posting here.

an authentic Jew is one who was either born of a Jewish mother, or converted according to Halacha.

a person with a Jewish father isn't considered authentically Jewish, unless they go through a conversion process.

i'm not allowed to post links to information that would help you understand the facts because it's been determined that a person with my specific views is acting in self-interest by posting such links.

they probably do this to other people, such as the REAL racists (nazis, kkk, tfp) but the moderators seem to give a great deal of latitude to people whose distortions of history and religion are revered even by liberal atheists.

nobody i know is interested in making anyone conform to our beliefs.

such a thing violates the essential requirement of FREE WILL.

most of us arrived at our present positions by study and inquiry, not by fanatical belief systems imposed for the purposes of power, control, fame, and wealth.

but we are all united in our determination to keep alive the very traditions most people think are irrelevant.

so what? do we not have a right to self-determination? in the minds of many who post here, apparently not.

it's a beautiful world, as DEVO said.

Kaaba Delendo Est!

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Acquiunk wrote:

What is being discussed is called superimposition, a process where by a conquering people incorporate the sacred sites of a conquered population into their own sacred traditions. It is not uncommon and both Christians and Muslims have practiced it in the past.
Quote:

Thank you for acknowledging that the Muslims took the places in question by force of arms and not by agreement of the indigenous population.

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Re: Rightful ownership

EIS wrote:

Are you saying that the entire history of Christian and Islamic Civilization is wrong in its massive documentation (against its own interests) of the fact that JEWS have, since the most ancient times, lived in, worked in, and owned the entire region of Israel...

.... the entire universe belongs to G-d. He created it and He granted it to whomever He deemed fit. It was His wish to give it to them and it was His wish to take it from them and give it to us."

Well, by that reasoning, I guess it must be G-d's wish for all the countries to be owned by whom they are at present.

Lets follow your reasoning a bit more: All the Jews in the world will need to move back to Israel. Because if they are living in USA, Europe, etc., they are definitely living on land that someone else lived on first. According to you, whoever lived on it first owns it. Or wait, let me guess, is that only in the case of Israel?

In your plan, when can we expect all the Jews to move back to Israel?

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This is one major can of worms. The emphasis appears to be on the "Middle East", what about sacred sites belonging to Indigenous People in the rest of the world? Extra Medium suggests that all areas overrun by European invaders be returned to their rightful inhabitants. One small problem, who gets to stay? What countries do people of european ancestry return to? In order to return me to my ancestral lands I would have to be cut into eight pieces.
This started out as a poll about returning Sacred Sited to Indigenous People. The Middle East is a problem because three major religions revere several sites in the area. All three claim to be "the one true religion". IMO, the big three should learn to share.
Many of the sacred Sites in North and South America are now tourist attractions and National Parks. Imagine trying to pray in your Church while being ogled by tourists who make audible comments about your ceremony? I have had to endure just that.
Sure I would like all Sacred Sites returned to the People who revere them.
I would also like to see all people treat the Earth and each other with respect. Some day this may happen, until then I am not holding my breath

Sam

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Well Okay. I guess EIS doesn't do dialogue.

I happen to be a Torah observant Jew. I also tend towards strong opinions. However, I refrain from trying to back up those opinions with a xenophobic twist on Judaism. (Some of you folk might think I xenophobe on Americanism, but that's a different story Smile

Besides, I don't)
The reason I steer away from using Torah Judaism to reinforce my opinions is, because for the most part, IT'S AGAINST THE LAW!! Torah Law, that is. Halacha.
Or, to put it in the common parlance, it's not good to antagonize the non-Jews by putting one's Jewish self up on some kind of Hoy Pedestal where whatever the Jew says is from G-d. The Rabbis have forbidden this kind of behavior for about two thousand years.

EIS is not an "authentic Jew." He is a lunatic of the Muslim Fascist variety.
Thankfully, Judaism has very few of these sort of lunatics.

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Moishe3rd,

Thank you for your voice of reason.

I don't get why radicals (whether they are Muslim, Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, whatever) can't see that if you go too far, you do nothing but create more enemies and resistance to your cause.

Voices like yours will do much more for the cause than radicals like EIS.

Maybe we could just put all the radicals of all sides of the world on an island and let them fight it out. Its the <5% that is ruining it for everyone.

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I take exception to the label "radical Buddhists" that tends to lump us unfairly with the Abrahamic crowd, or with the radical Hindu movement.

Buddhism does not foment religious wars, nor use our religious convictions to justify conflict. I'm sure that you meant no harm, but lets keep the record straight.

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There is no such thing as a radical hindu movement. The people who incite hatered in the name of Hindism are just a bunch of thugs using religion as a means to get power.

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Kaaba a Hindu Temple

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