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Fri 2 Jul, 2004 01:01 pm
"The love of money is the root of all evil".
Isn't capitalism a system that, taken to it's furthest idealistic limits, uses money as a basis for morality? If you look at how insurance companies deal with people, it has nothing to do with right or wrong, or doing justice. They are basically betting on tragedy, and trying to find the best odds for themselves, and money is the moral compass in this case.
Advertisements are everywhere, trying to get people trading and buying and spending money, and it even gets to the point where people are virtually turned into products (check out Jay Leno on any given night for an example).
I wonder, if you are religious, and even if you aren't, what you think God would say about all this?
And if you think there is no problem with it, then is it allright for a religion or a church to market itself? Place ads on the sides of buses? make promotional videos and commercials?
I do believe the fanatics will assure you that Dog enjoined us all to go forth and be fruitful, and to multiply . . .
You are confusing two issues. You started out asking for opinions regarding the love of money, capitalism, and the advertising-soaked, spending society we've become. Then asked if churches should do marketing, implying that churches are advertising for the same reasons Wal-Mart does (for money).
Regarding the churches, their marketing is not about money. It's about reaching people, saving souls, building families, encouraging morality and values. Money will be a byproduct, of course. But the churches are not selling anything, and require no fees.
When companies do advertising, they're usually doing so to generate revenues.
God has no objection to money. And money does not make a person bad. But if money becomes a person's primary focus, then evil comes from that person's actions in trying to attain money at any moral cost.
I personally believe that God wants people to live comfortably, and in most of the world, that requires a certain sum of money.
As a person who tithes his income, I see also that God benefits from my success. That is, the more I earn, the more I tithe. Not to mention charitable giving beyond the tithe.
The more I have, the more I am able to give (and I do), which means my ability to help other people increases.
I hope to one day open a charity which will help people build their own businesses, and get a leg up on life--get out of the minimum-wage rut, and build a business which will change the lives of their family, and future generations.
Of course, such a project requires money, so I had better earn plenty of extra!
General Tsao
Bill Gates has donated more money to charity then most people will make in a 100 lifetimes, yet that makes him no more faithful to god than to money.
As I understand it from many sources I read and have forgotten, the judeochristian tradition has it that wealth is a reward to the just, or some such. I will depend on others to back up my contention, as I haven't been all so interested in that for quite a while.
Personally, if I believed in a god with a big G, I'd think he'd (with a big G I would think it would be a he...) be snoring.
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to enter a needle`s eye than a rich man into the kingdom of God.
Matthew 19:24
Faith is like free speech; some have it others don't.
And how does that relate to the question?
kicky,
I really don't think God gives a bleep about capitalism. I would say it's more about how one treats others than about how many things one has. In the traditional Native American culture the concept of personal sacrifice is very important. You give away the things you would like to keep. A person who has much and gives away half expecting to be honored is less respected than one who who has little and gives all.
Advertising something does not make it a good product. The more hype I see the more I doubt the value of the product. A religion that proclaims itself as "the one true religion" and the only way to "heaven" is, in my mind" suspect. I distrust all belief systems which condemn all others.
This thread conjured up, in my mind, visions of perfectly tanned, slender, sexy "Virgin Mary" in a bikini touting the benefits of believing in her son.
"Wonder religion saves souls 12 ways."
No thanks!
I'll stick to the Red Road.
As for money, it's just another tool.
Sam
As I remember it Christ threw the moneylenders out of the temple but blessed the widow who gave a small ammount to the temple as an offering to God.
rabel22 wrote:As I remember it Christ threw the moneylenders out of the temple but blessed the widow who gave a small ammount to the temple as an offering to God.
The way I understand it, Jesus didn't like the idea of disrespecting a Holy temple by turning it into a marketplace.
Also, in the example of the widow who gave a small amount, but it was all she had, the comparison was to other people who gave from their own wealth but did it boastfully, rather than in humility.
God blesses people in different ways, or a combination of ways. But in any case, He tells us to be content in our circumstance.
Me: Jesus directed his disciples to spread the word. He lived a rough life and died a hideous death, with their witness, so they would be prepared to tell the story.
I think he'd be fine with the advertising. Even glad about it, if it brings one more person in to the church. Of course, if someone has a selfish motive re the advertising, thats a matter between them and God.--But God can use someone's selfish motives to reach people.
<MO>
Solon wrote:Bill Gates has donated more money to charity then most people will make in a 100 lifetimes, yet that makes him no more faithful to god than to money.
Agreed! And an excellent point!
However, I think God looks at a person's heart, not dollars (or percentage-of-income) donated. Only God and Gates know where Bill's loyalty lies.
I think that many large donors also are private donors--not making the headlines with their contributions, so we (the public) may not know how much a person actually gives away.
on the other hand, what do you think capitalism thinks of god?
god's thinking, thru his 17th century northern european devotees, say god's blessing shines upon the thrifty and hard working... the protestant work ethic and the foundations of western capitalism (according to weber.)
oh boy weber, where the hell is seydlitz at a time like this?
Hey, that's right, Kuv, Seydlitz was a true Weber devotee, wasn't he . . . i'd forgotten all about that . . .
In the days of yore, only royalty lived in luxury and comfort. The majority lived in dispair. Now, anybody can 'achieve' and live relatively comfortable lives. Those of us lucky enough to be born and raised in developed countries have the advantage of 'free' education. I also think our generation is very lucky to be living in the 20th and 21st century when technology has advanced our living standards. We can travel half way around the world in one day, and communicate with people all around the world almost instantaneously for very reasonable cost.
ci
What makes you think things have changed? Sure there is a much larger "middle class" in developed countries, however in many developed areas there are still people with no education, hope or future. In developing and undeveloped areas the percentage of impoverished, hopeless peoples higher.
Technology has raised the standard of living, but it has also raised the levels of toxic and carcinogenic material in the air, soil and water. Did you know that there are farmers who need to buy water because their wells are polluted from herbicides and pesticides? These same farmers continue to use these harmful chemicals regardless of the effects.
What a world!
Sam
Sam, I think you missed the message of my post. I didn't say misery and environmental problems didn't exist. I said the cup was half full, because more people can live in relative comfort compared to many generations ago. As a consumer, I will drive my car, use our heater and ac, fly to distant lands, and enjoy my retirement. You can limit yourself to whatever pleases you to not polute this world.
Being rich is not evil, it is greed and covetness of riches that is evil.
However, there are poor people who go to heaven and rich people that go to hell as is shown in the parable of the rich man and poor man. The same could just as well be in reverse. It was the attitude of the rich man who would not give so much as a crust of bread to the poor man who sat begging at his gate everyday that sent the rich man to hell, not just being rich.
Solon wrote:Bill Gates has donated more money to charity then most people will make in a 100 lifetimes, yet that makes him no more faithful to god than to money.
I think that Mr. Gates is more faithful to software than either to God or to money.
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