Hey, it's starting to get interesting! And the differences b/n the Libs & Labor are becoming more pronounced. I think Latham has handled a raft of different, pressing issues very well since the debate. He's looking quite convincing as a possible alternative leader. And Howard is sounding less involved & more tired by the minute! Is this just me being optimistic, or do the rest of you Oz folk see things differently?
Dunno - but I am impressed with his guts on the elite schools funding thing!
Hi Deb
Yes, to the Education policy, obviously! And also the Indigenous Affairs policy that Adrian posted on earlier ....
But I think he's done particularly well in the fall-out from the Jakarta bombing/Iraq hostage fright, over the last couple of days. Moved the emphasis from supporting the US in Iraq to looking after our own interests in our own region. Given that "security" is perceived to be the Libs' area of strength & authority, this is quite an achievement.
Yes - I noticed the Aboriginal funding thing - hoobloodyray and about smegging time...
Yes indeed! So much is before smegging time! I'm so sick of living with a government stuck in the 1950s! Let's move on!
I'd like to see him elected just for the education policy. It's about time these elite schools stopped robbing the rest of us.
Yes, Wilso.
But if you put it another way: It's time that the majority of young people in the country received the support they're entitled to from their government.
something gives me the feeling I'm going to be the minority here, seeing as I go to a private school - well, they call it a public school (even though it's not) - and not just any private school, but the best school in Sydney.
Private schools aren't stealing money from the government, we're taking the load off the government. If it wasn't for our parents working hard, paying their taxes, and on top of that paying for their kids education, the government would be under a lot of strain, seeing as they'll be the ones paying for the school fees rather than parents. The steriotypical view of a private school kid is of one with a comb-over, a Rolls Royce and a butler, living in a mansion. But it's absolutely nothing like that (except for one kid...(who, may I add, is hated by everybody)).
Today, we were having a class discussion about the Labor private schools thingamajig (and this was in Art History so you can imagine how much work I missed out on :wink:) and my teacher said that her son went to a public school for a while and she told us that fights occured every day, at least one kid was wagging per subject, teachers held no respect, students did whatever the hell they wanted whenever the hell they wanted and teachers couldn't do a bloody thing. She told me this one story where all the students had to do a fitness trial for PDHPE and one girl said "I'm not gonna do it and there's nothin you can do about it."
and the teacher just said, "Okay then."
Pouring money into public education isn't going to make it much better, it just means kids will be disruptive and disrespectful in better facilities. Now, I'm not sure if all public schools are like that, but that's what I heard from a teacher there.
Lol! I went to an elite school, too, MC.
However, I am firmly for Labor's policy. And would be if I had kids at an elite school now.
You see - I think it is sort of a utilitqrian question - how to provide the greatest good to the greatest number.
I agree that Wilso was over the top re the "stealing" comment - but, state and poor non-government schools are starved for funds - and provide for the vast majority of kids - especially the already disadvantaged kids. Correcting the sequelae of such disadvantage is of huge benefit to society as a whole - and to the individual kids and their future families.
The kids at the elite schools tend to have folks who can pay a lot - so presumably these schools will survive - they have in the long periods when no state funding was available. This policy takes some money away from those who have a lot - and will do well, come what may - and makes it available to help those not so lucky.
Limited funding means some difficult decisions - and we all benefit from better education. Kids in the elite schools will not have an impoverished education, no matter what - and the better the cheaper alternatives - well, this gives the parents who send their kids to the elite schools good choices too.
I've got to disagree with you. The government collects taxes, which it uses to build schools. A minority of people, make the decision that what the government provides is not good enough for them, and they want something better. There is absolutely no justification for private schools to get one solitary cent from the government. But not only do they get it, they actually get 70% of federal government funding. It is a F**KING CRIME. At the most, non government schools should get 30% of taxpayers money, in accordance with the number of students educated by them. The suggestion that private schools save the government money is a total crock of sh!t. And as for parents being able to choose, that's also crap. The vast majority of parents will never have the income to choose which school to send their children to. And the government schools miss out because so much of ordinary taxpayers money funds the arrogant elite, who unlike everyone else, somehow think they've got the right to choose exactly how the taxes they pay are spent.
I'll bet my parents worked just as hard (or harder) than yours, but they never could have afforded to have me privately schooled. There's plenty of people who work their guts out their whole lives for virtually nothing. Why should they be disadvantaged?
"Today, we were having a class discussion about the Labor private schools thingamajig (and this was in Art History so you can imagine how much work I missed out on ) and my teacher said that her son went to a public school for a while and she told us that fights occured every day, at least one kid was wagging per subject, teachers held no respect, students did whatever the hell they wanted whenever the hell they wanted and teachers couldn't do a bloody thing. She told me this one story where all the students had to do a fitness trial for PDHPE and one girl said "I'm not gonna do it and there's nothin you can do about it."
and the teacher just said, "Okay then."
Pouring money into public education isn't going to make it much better, it just means kids will be disruptive and disrespectful in better facilities. Now, I'm not sure if all public schools are like that, but that's what I heard from a teacher there."
Yep - grossly exaggerated - but some truth..
fantastic argument for decent resourcing, isn't it - to help turn that around...
It's all about hope .... & faith! ... That going through this education thing can make a difference. That's the big challenge with the hardest of the poor public (& other) schools out there.
It's pretty damn difficult when your school has employed the cheapest teachers because that's all that can be afforded .... And it's cold in winter, because the school is scrimping on heating costs ... or it's hot in those damnable "temporary" (permanent) classrooms in high summer ... or there are so few up to date resources for you in the school library for your Art research requirement ... or your class can't be booked into the computer resource centre when it needs it, simply because there aren't enough computers in the school (few students own a lap top) .... these are very basic problems that the poorest of poor schools have to cope with daily, before they can get on with the more ambitious stuff of "education".. And not all of these schools are government schools, either.
Some schools need a funding boost simply to rejoin something remotely resembling the "mainstream".
Private schools seem to think that resources your talking about are their exclusive domain.
Wilso
Actually, I think that the consumers of private schools in Oz probably have no idea of what it's like to do it tough. (What I've described is not unusual in cash-strapped schools.) It's not part of their experience. How could they know? Or more to the point: do they WANT to know? - & do something about achieving a bit of equity. I'm talking about adults here - parents, school administrators, media advocates of elite private schools. How could anyone think that it's OK for some children in this supposedly affluent society to work situations like this? The I'm alright Jack syndrome, I guess ...
chill out man. I'm just telling you my situation.
Your parents may not have been able to send you to a private school but mine could. It seems like you're saying you hate private schools because some people can afford to go there while you couldn't. Like I said before, I'm just a student, I don't know all the policies of all the parties and what they means for me, I just have a vague interest in what's going on. Most of the stuff I said I picked up from here and there.
Reading the arguments people have put up, MC - what do you think?
If I had any doubt about my position it's just been put to rest by the latest announcement by the private school lobby. Apparently Labor's redistribution plan would increase the gap between public and private schools.
Melbournian cheese, what I'm pissed off about is the possibility that my 2 little neices may not be able to get a decent education because so much of my hard earned tax dollars are used to pad your priveliged butt.
Your parents may be able to afford. Deb, MsOlga and I can't. Yet somehow we've been roped into paying for it.
Wilso - please calm down - and I think that is an uncalled for - and unwise - comment.
You know why I am being rude enough to say this to you.
Edit: I mean your comment to Melbournian Cheese - not re Olga and me...
