gozmo
Sure, the old Labor Party "transformed" itself under Hawke & Keating. But the results of the transformation from a policy based on "depression & working class angst", as you put it, didn't really do much for for the ever-growing number of have nots in this society. The working class that was disappearing, sometimes directly as a result Keating's economic policies, often went on become the new poor - jobless or under-employed. I would have preferred a more compassionate transformation by Labor. A Labor Party that had less in common with the Liberal Party - A less pragmatic Labour Party & one which took a few more risks for issues that matter to ordinary people.
As for Hawke:
I didn't like his stance at the time of the dissolution in '75
I didn't like the way he gained the leadership of the ALP (Remember Bill Haydin's "drover's dog" & the famous "blood on your hands interview" with Richard Carlton?)
I wasn't crazy about his "consensus" approach when in leadership. It didn't help the weaker members of the trade union movement much at all.
And this may not be important to many, but I didn't respect him as a person - his values - at all.
Sorry, I don't think he comes anywhere near Gough in terms of status & integrity. He was just a very astute & successful politician, that's all. And the media loved him.
dlowan wrote:Setanta wrote:Is there an historical precedent for suggesting that interest rates would go higher with Labor, or has this been tailored entirely from whole cloth?
Yes - happened under the previous Labor government - interest rates of 18% on housing loans.
Not sure if this was a govt. thing, or not - I guess economists will argue forever - or whether it was a world economic circumstance thing. The economy was overheated - and they used interest rates to try to bring it down.
'Twas the late eighties - they were down to 8 to 10 percent when I bought a home in 1992, and down well below that by 1996 when Labor was thrown out, and the Libs got in.
It was awful while it lasted, though - for borrowers.
Deb
I remember this period well. House prices & interest rates going through the ceiling! But how much of this was due to government policies & how much to the Reserve Bank I couldn't say, not being an economist.
But I think what Howard was implying, by his comment, is that these things automatically happen as a result of Labor governments. I doubt this very much, from what I've read.
Deb
This was posted here today, on the issues you mentioned. Is this any help in figuring out what happened with your home loan interest rates?
Let's see policies and not scare tactics :
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/08/30/1093852178483.html[/quote]
I also appears that Hawkie is the last career trade-unionist to make it big. Neither Martin Ferguson or Jennie George made anything of their political attempts. If the ALP is now just recruiting from the same sort of mind pool as the Libs (both Peter Costello and the Mad Monk started from the labour movement), then there will end up being little to distinguish them.
Say what you will about Hawke/Keating, good or bad, but they were a powerful team together and they steamrollered a very, very mediocre Opposition that had HUGE issues about leadership and direction.
Mr Stillwater wrote:I also appears that Hawkie is the last career trade-unionist to make it big. Neither Martin Ferguson or Jennie George made anything of their political attempts. If the ALP is now just recruiting from the same sort of mind pool as the Libs (both Peter Costello and the Mad Monk started from the labour movement), then there will end up being little to distinguish them.
Say what you will about Hawke/Keating, good or bad, but they were a powerful team together and they steamrollered a very, very mediocre Opposition that had HUGE issues about leadership and direction.
Jennie George is my local member. And as the member for Throsbie she holds one of the safest labor seats in the country. Her own future is certainly secure. And she's only one of the dozen's of politicians I've ever contacted to reply to me. She even called me on the phone once.
I didn't say that they were good/bad/drunk. I just said that as it is not a guarantee to a an easier ride in the ALP. Simon Crean (thanks msolga, I had forgotten him) got hammered by his own party something awful! And who DID made it the easy way? The leaders of two OTHER political organisations!
Peter Garrett (The ACF)
Cheryl Kernot (Democrats)
Read back through the thread, Deb.
In total agreement, Mr S.
msolga wrote:In total agreement, Mr S.
Yeah, read the thread Deb!!! Me and msolga are in total agreement!! Nyahh, nyahh!
msolga,
It is usually my preference to read rather than write in these forums but perhaps I should commence a thread on the virtues or lack of same in our political leaders. Meanwhile, apart from saying I strongly disagree with some of what you say, I will desist from further comment in that regard here.
The article at the link you posted does much to address the questions about historical precedent. It is fact that Interest rates have been high and low under Labor and Liberal governments. It is also fact that most analysts expect a moderate increase in rates regardless of who wins the election. No analyst to my knowledge is anticipating continuing rises. The reason is the modern obsession with inflation, so long as Inflation remains within targeted parameters interest rates will not vary appreciably.
A touching moment in time, Mr S? :wink:
Mr S! Not Pondy (or worse).
If only setanta could see this!!
gozmo
It is not at all surprising to me that there are a variety of opinions here about the same events & policies. We are all different, we come from different backgrounds & we all have different perceptions & expectations. What I have written about here is about my own history, understanding & beliefs. I can fully understand that someone with different experiences & beliefs could view things in an entirely different way.
Mr Stillwater wrote:Mr S! Not Pondy (or worse).
If only setanta could see this!!
Actually, I'm not sure what to call you. "Pondy" seems a bit familiar & I don't know you well enough to be familiar.Mr Stillwater is far too formal. What would you like to be called? (I know I'm going to be sorry I asked!)
Mr Stillwater wrote:I also appears that Hawkie is the last career trade-unionist to make it big. Neither Martin Ferguson or Jennie George made anything of their political attempts. If the ALP is now just recruiting from the same sort of mind pool as the Libs (both Peter Costello and the Mad Monk started from the labour movement), then there will end up being little to distinguish them.
Say what you will about Hawke/Keating, good or bad, but they were a powerful team together and they steamrollered a very, very mediocre Opposition that had HUGE issues about leadership and direction.
Peter Costello had a brief flirtation with Young Labour while at Uni but while still in his twenties was working with the NFF and acting for employers in Industrial cases. Tony Abbott was a protege of B.A. Santa Maria (Santa Pariah in labour circles). I hardly think "started from the labour movement" is accurate.
I think I am gonna be sick.
Do you two want a nice, private room somewhere?
