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Peace in Israel

 
 
swolf
 
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2004 10:10 pm
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39195

Quote:

Here's shocker:
Peace in Israel!
Officials wonder if Palestinian terror war has failed, now turning against militants
Posted: June 29, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern

By Aaron Klein
© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com

With the Palestinians unable to carry out a single suicide bombing in Israel since March, and Hamas halted from unleashing the large-scale revenge attacks called for after its top terrorist leaders were assassinated, Middle East analysts and politicians are beginning to debate whether the intifada - the terrorist war against Israel started by PLO leader Yasser Arafat after rejecting offers at the Camp David peace summit in 2000 - is coming to an end.

At this time last year, there were 20 suicide bombings killing 141, while 2002 saw 25 such attacks in which 147 Israelis were killed. So far this year, there have been only two bombings in Israel proper, killing 19.

Israel says its tactics clearly are working and that life in the Jewish state may gradually be restored to the way it was before the violence started in 2000. The security fence completed in Gaza and the one being constructed in the West Bank are credited with keeping suicide bombers out, and raids in Palestinian areas and targeted killings of top terrorist commanders seem to be putting Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades on the run and unable to orchestrate attacks.

Also, the downfall of Saddam Hussein, who was paying $25,000 to the families of suicide bombers, is likely a contributing factor to the decline of the violence and incentive of some in the Palestinian population to join with terrorist groups.

The question is whether the trend marks the end of the intifada, or is merely a lull while the terrorists, temporarily decapitated, regroup and rethink.

"There is no doubt that efforts by the PLO to dictate the terms of our surrender and bring about our collapse have failed, they have accomplished none of their goals," chief Sharon spokesman Raanan Gissin told WND. "Therefore, one can say the intifada has failed, and is now even turning against its own initiators."

Gissin points out that while Israel "always has and will continue to live with the threat of terrorism," the Jewish state turned the tables on the jihadists with its forceful anti-terror campaign, and he says the violence will continue to decline.

Gissin says the Palestinian terror apparatus has been hit badly, Arafat has been internationally isolated, and the Palestinian economy has nearly crumbled as a result of the PLO's strategic decision to launch a terrorist offensive against the Jewish state instead of peaceful negotiations. Ironically, explains Gissin, the intent of the intifada was to demoralize Israel, destroy its economy, bring it to its knees, and force it to surrender to Palestinian demands.

Gissin says if this was a real war, it has ended with an Israeli victory, albeit a bloody one.

Daniel Pipes, director of the Middle East Forum, concurs.

"While the timetable of Palestinian recognition of failure has been slower than I expected, short of a mega-terror attack, things do seem to be winding down," he said.

Sources close to Hamas, which is responsible for many of the suicide attacks, say that in the West Bank, where most terror operations originated, the organization has been very badly damaged.

"There is no money to finance operations," said one. "Many of the leaders are gone and it is difficult to replace them. Hamas needs at least two years to rebuild."

Malcolm Hoenline, executive vice-chairman of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations feels this was never a real intifada to begin with - not a popular uprising in which the majority of the Palestinian society took part, but was rather a violent terror campaign waged by Palestinian terror groups and coordinated by the Palestinian leadership.

"The Palestinians have been growing increasingly weary and disgusted with their leadership," Hoenline told WND. "They see they gained nothing while the leaders steal their money and ruin the economy. It may be too early to say the Intifada is over. The terror will continue, but with much less success."

Hoenline credits Sharon's plan to unilaterally withdraw from Gaza and parts of the West Bank by 2005 for creating a "new reality" for some Palestinians. He hopes it will cause the Palestinian leadership to take a fresh look at the situation and realize the area is moving into a new phase in which Israel no longer needs the Palestinians as negotiating partners.

Indeed, the Jewish State is going to great lengths to separate from the Palestinians and keep its borders safe from terrorists. As WND recently reported, Israel is currently testing a Star Wars-like remote control border with Gaza that will use unmanned sensor patrol cars and computerized observation posts to spot and, upon human authorization, kill terrorists, even recommending the most appropriate weapon for the system to fire against a specified target.

Israel is also putting to use a centuries-old tactic - an 80-foot-deep moat, possibly to be filled with water, between Egypt and Gaza as a way to keep terrorists from crossing and block them from constructing more arms-smuggling tunnels.

But some in Israel worry the violence may be morphing into a new phase. They fear the Palestinians, unable to infiltrate Israel, may be switching their tactics to firing long-range mortars and Katyusha rockets across the border deep inside Israel.

Just yesterday, Palestinian rockets slammed into a town in southern Israel, killing two people and prompting official Israeli calls for forceful retaliation.

But Gissin says Israel will continue to drive home to the Palestinians that "whatever violence they use against us will bring them nothing but destruction. Eventually, it has to sink in with them."

Reports say most Palestinians are beginning to realize the intifada is coming to an end. "In the West Bank city of Tul Karm," writes Isabel Kershner in the Jerusalem Report, "everyone from Yasser Arafat's governor to the remnants of the Al-Aqsa Brigades says the Palestinian uprising is as good as over."




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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,600 • Replies: 24
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2004 10:27 pm
swolf, That would be fantastic if it was true, but one month of peace does not make it permanent. Only time will tell; maybe terrorist attacks will be less freqent before it completely dies down. Let's cross our fingers, and hope for the best.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2004 10:44 pm
Very interesting.

I hadn't noticed that the evening news has not been filled with stories of Palestinian attacks on Israel.

Are you sure it hasn't happened? What with so many papers filling every daily edition with the neverending story of Abu Ghraib, maybe there wasn't room?
0 Replies
 
swolf
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2004 10:47 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
swolf, That would be fantastic if it was true, but one month of peace does not make it permanent. Only time will tell; maybe terrorist attacks will be less freqent before it completely dies down. Let's cross our fingers, and hope for the best.



The best comparison I've read noted that "palestinians" were living about as well as blacks used to live in Mississippi in 1957 prior to Arafat being put in charge of the PA, and that now they are living about like Haitians.

Now, without bothering to think about it, you might figure blacks in Mississippi in 1957 probably had a pretty hard life, but the answer is "Compared to what?" Compared to Haitians or galley slaves, being a negro in Mississippi in 1957 was probably a pretty good deal...

The typical "palestinian" has to have noticed the change for the worse.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jun, 2004 11:12 pm
I'm not here to defend or criticise the treatment of Palistinians by Israel, but to discuss the necessary steps required to proceed to peace. Suicide bombings of Israelis will get the Palestinians more heartache than progress. Let the politicians work out the peace process; that's the only way they are going to see peace, and work towards better living conditions for the Palestinians.
0 Replies
 
Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jun, 2004 03:57 am
It's going into the right direction it seems - that is, for Israel mostly.
0 Replies
 
swolf
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jun, 2004 06:51 am
Long term, of course, there's only one basic solution to the problem of the "palestinians" and it should be obvious to anybody who looks at maps much.

You've got this gigantic swath of territory called the muslim world which extends from the wall of China to the west coast of Africa and tens of degrees of lattitude up an down, and then you have this tiny sliver of land called Israel which you couldn't even find unless you knew exactly where to look. Basically, Israel could tolerate letting "palestinians" have the Gaza strip but the Gaza strip is a natural hellhole where nobody should be living, and Israel cannot tolerate giving up the west bank for obvious reasons.

The muslim world has to be made to find some place to put the "palestinians" (I'm using double-quotes here because there cannot be more than a few thousand of them with any history of living in the neighborhood of Israel going back more than about 100 years) the same way they found room for the 60 million Pakistanis. That's the only real answer. No rational person could ask the Israelis to accept them as neighbors or treat them as anything other than an enemy.
0 Replies
 
Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jun, 2004 07:01 am
A common misconception is that Palestinians do not have a bond with the land. You can say things like 'they were immigrants', 'they are just Arabs; the Arab world is big' but that doesn't cover it. Although I am not a fan of the 'Right to Return', I can understand that there are Palestinians who claim this right. Point is: it doesn't matter how long your family lived there. I think most Israeli's or Americans see Israel and the US as their homecountry, although most of the ancestors of the Israeli's and America's came to these countries in the 20th century. You can not just say 'all Arabs are the same', 'an Arab from Morocco can as easily live in Morocco as in Syria'. There are a lot of Palestians who had a familyhistory in what is now Israel. Can you ignore that?
0 Replies
 
swolf
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jun, 2004 07:47 am
Mark Twain and other visitors to the holy land in the mid to late 1800s described the region as a ghost town. Muslim arabs began pouring in after the zionists moved in and began to create industry and jobs. Like I say, the map tells the whole story. You could put them anywhere in the muslim world, while the Israelis have no other place to go.
0 Replies
 
Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jun, 2004 07:54 am
And that is just my point. Who says new immigrants can't get attached to the area they live in? Who says other Arab countries are even willing to give shelter to the Palestinians? The Arab world is not one big solid area where people are all alike.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jun, 2004 08:06 am
The history of the people who live in that area has changed so much that it would almost impossible to pin point who has been there longer and therefore has the right to the land.

The point is this, for a long time no one really had a state or anything in that area. People of all kinds just lived there. Then after hitler and the holocaust it was decided that the Jews that lived in that area would have a state and other jews could come and live there too and be a citizen of a sovereign state. They received help from all kinds of countries to get set up so to speak.

However, this left a lot of people out of the loop if they were not jews and that basically was/ is not fair.

However, most arabic states have now accepted Israel's right to exist despite the basic unfairness of it. In life sometimes I guess you got to deal with what you got and in order for the Palestinians to get out from under the yoke of Israel; compromises have to made. All the suicide bombs and other such measures have not gotten anywhere.

What is unfair in this current thing is that the Palestinians do not have a voice in saying what land is theirs and just have to accept whatever Sharon and Bush say is theirs and count it as a blessing that they are getting any land at all. It is not right.

What we need is to get honest and fair people from all sides and get rid of Sharon, Bush and Arafat because none of them have done anything to promote true peace and so in effect they are to blame for the continued loss of life from all sides. The Israeli's need to get rid of Sharon, the Palestinians need to get rid of Arafat, and we need to get rid of Bush.

Although unless Kerry changes his tune; having a new US president won't help the middle east crises. So the US should butt out altogether except to offer humanitarian aide to whichever side needs it.

We need leaders who are not hung up on precieved religious reasons for accepting or not accepting agreements but are thinking of the practical land and resources each will need in order to sustain their country. However, I feel that there is fat chance of that from any side including even our own side here in the US.
0 Replies
 
Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jun, 2004 08:15 am
I think you said it quite well revel.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jun, 2004 08:23 am
revel, Well stated, and I agree with your opinion.
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jun, 2004 08:39 am
As much as I detest the shrub and just about everything the worthless sh!t represents, I can't put too much blame solely on him for the middle east problems. He's just one in a long line who haven't helped.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jun, 2004 11:23 am
I agree with you wilso. I can't think of a single US president that hasn't sided more with Israel than with the Palestinians. We are not the honest broker and i don't know how we ever got that label.

But Bush has made a point of excluding the palestinians from meets and talks in an effort to prove that Arafat is not a relevant leader. So that basically leaves the Palestinians without a voice since Arafat is their elected leader.

That statergy of Bush's is so illogical. I mean you can't go around the world and say, "hey, I don't like the guy I gotta communicate with so I am either going to leave that side out of the discussions or I am going to pick someone else to represent that country."

In any event, in our country the reasons to pick a president include things that have to do with our country and Bush is not the best man for the job.
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2004 02:47 am
It's just more evidence that the shrub is not interested in democracy. At least any democracy that doesn't come to the decisions he wants.
0 Replies
 
swolf
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2004 05:42 am
revel wrote:
I agree with you wilso. I can't think of a single US president that hasn't sided more with Israel than with the Palestinians. We are not the honest broker and i don't know how we ever got that label.

But Bush has made a point of excluding the palestinians from meets and talks in an effort to prove that Arafat is not a relevant leader. So that basically leaves the Palestinians without a voice since Arafat is their elected leader.


http://www.cpcug.net/images/bullshit.jpg

http://www.tzemachdovid.org/Facts/whatelection.shtml

Quote:


By Joel Mowbray
National Review Online
April 25, 2002, 8:45 a.m.

In a New York Times earlier this week, former President Jimmy Carter casually remarked that the 1996 Palestinian elections were "open and fair." Carter, of all people, knows better - Yasser Arafat has never been fairly elected the leader of anything, let alone the Palestinian people.

Seven years ago, the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) made its grand conversion from bloody terrorist outfit to a governing body with ostensibly fair elections. Over 600 international observers, including Carter, gave the process a seal of approval, and newspapers from Berlin to Los Angeles trumpeted the triumph of democracy in the Palestinian territories.

But the Palestinian people were conned - they believed a real election had taken place, and why wouldn't they? Throughout the West Bank and Gaza Strip, every wall and every street light had played host to posters with the red, green, black, and white colors of the Palestinian flag, and people walked into voting booths just like people in real democracies do.

There were over 700 candidates from a multitude of parties and slates, and politicians were pressing the flesh on every street corner. Turnout topped 70 percent, and Palestinians honestly believed that they had embarked on a path to true democracy.

But what seemed like a legitimate election was little more than an elaborate charade, a fraud perpetrated on the Palestinian people. The shenanigans started a few months before the international observers set foot in the Middle East.

Much like American primaries, Fatah held internal elections to decide the people to represent the party on the ballot for each given seat. Arafat, however, didn't like the results, so he cast them aside and created his own slate. Come Election Day, most of the "independents" who actually won council seats were Fatah members kicked off the official slate by Arafat.

Several groups, including Peace Watch, noted that Arafat and his minions had, in the months leading up to the election, intimidated political activists, arrested some political opponents, and bribed others to exit races.

Despite heavy-handedness by Arafat in the races for the 88-seat Palestinian National Council (PNC), at least there were real challengers for many of those contests. At the top of the ticket, however, Arafat only faced what could generously be described as token opposition.

The lone person to oppose Arafat on the ballot was a 72-year-old social worker, Samiha Khalil. She shocked the international press with what the New York Times labeled a "surprisingly high" number of votes. Her final, "surprisingly high" tally? 9.3 percent of the vote.

Even if a credible politician had taken on Arafat, however, he would have been unlikely to clear all the hurdles in mounting a serious challenge. Arafat had a stranglehold on the media, one he proved willing to maintain with force when necessary.

In a one-week period shortly before the election, Arafat had more than nine hours of speaking time on television, yet his opponent was never mentioned during those seven days. In response to criticism from foreign journalists, Khalil was finally granted 47 minutes on air at the eleventh hour.

When Arafat didn't have a media outlet in his pocket, he would bully and intimidate editors to get the press coverage he desired. A month before the election, Jerusalem's largest Palestinian newspaper, Al Quds, was told by the PLO to run a story about Arafat's meeting with a Greek Orthodox leader on the front page. On the same morning the story ran on page 8, PLO armed guards arrested Al Quds editor Maher al-Alami, "detaining" him for six days.

Upon his release, al-Alami, who was not the only Palestinian journalist arrested that month by the PLO, unsurprisingly had sharp words about the influence of the man then poised to win the rigged election, noting that "the Palestinian media follow his instructions out of fear."

Fear is a tactic well-known and long-employed by Arafat. "Arafat has a long history of using violence and the threat of violence to beat back perceived threats to his leadership of the PLO and now the PA," says Jim Phillips, Mideast policy expert for the Heritage Foundation.

That an older woman who could barely attract handfuls of curious onlookers at her campaign events was the only challenger at the top of the ticket should come as no surprise. Someone with an actual chance of garnering public support likely would have faced reprisals, including arrest, torture, or worse.

Former CIA director Jim Woolsey dismisses claims that Arafat was democratically elected, quipping, "Arafat was essentially elected the same way Stalin was, but not nearly as democratically as Hitler, who at least had actual opponents."

Given that potential opponents were intimidated or bribed to drop out of races, Arafat dominated television airtime, and there was only token opposition in the campaign for chairman, the natural assumption would be that the international observers would expose the election for the sham that it was. That assumption would be sadly mistaken.

While monitoring the 1996 election, former President Carter ignored all evidence of Arafat's wrongdoing, and instead zeroed in on the role of the Israeli Defense Forces patrolling Jerusalem. "There's no doubt [Israelis] are doing everything they can to intimidate Palestinians," said the former peanut farmer on the day of the election. There was credible evidence to suggest some voter intimidation by Israelis in Jerusalem, but for Carter to focus solely on that not only paints an inaccurate picture by omission, but also harms the Palestinian people in the long run, denying them the democracy they thought were getting.

The steadfast refusal of the international observers to highlight the significant PLO corruption in the months prior to the election colored the news coverage of the vote here in America.

The Sunday New York Times blared in its lead sentence, "Voting in their first general election today, Palestinians gave a broad endorsement to Yasir Arafat's leadership in building their homeland." To this day, the urban legend of Arafat being democratically elected has real consequences.

"The tragedy of this is that it allows people to create a moral equivalency between Sharon and Arafat, when in fact none exists," comments Daniel Pipes, director of the Middle East Forum.

Maybe Arafat would have won in a free and fair election, but he didn't. Propagating the myth that he was "elected" only serves to illegitimately legitimize his status as a democratic leader. Perhaps Arafat is the most popular Palestinian leader, but for all the wrong reasons. He achieved his pole position through thuggish tactics, not a democratic election.
0 Replies
 
swolf
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2004 05:46 am
Quote:

A liberal looks at those less fortunate and says "damn, I may have to give them some of mine".


http://www.members.aol.com/upendragonu/economypics/clinton.jpg

Slick Clinton preparing to give some poor person some of his...
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2004 06:13 am
Hey wolf. When was the last time you or any other conservative ever gave the poor anything but a lecture?
0 Replies
 
swolf
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2004 06:23 am
Wilso wrote:
Hey wolf. When was the last time you or any other conservative ever gave the poor anything but a lecture?



When did liberals ever give the poor anything other than beaurocracies to negotiate and programs designed to aggrandize the power of the beaurocrats and a ruling class of social workers and politicians?
0 Replies
 
 

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