Dassault Rafales sold at last

@Lordyaswas,

Lordyaswas wrote:

What was the purpose of this thread, apart from showing yourself up as an arrogant, piss taking French Speaking Canuck prick?

Back on our old messageboard, we had periodic outbreaks of nationalistic fighter jet comparisons. Sort of a "mine's bigger than yours, nyah nyah" type of thing.

Why do you think Olivier is Canadian? I've never seen his birth certificate, but I see no reason not to believe his claims of French nationality.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

Why do you think Olivier is Canadian?

apparently the poster you quoted takes it as an insult

so of course now I feel insulted

Evil or Very Mad

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

apparently the poster you quoted takes it as an insult

I'm not sure about that. Lordyaswas just seems to think that he has identified Olivier as being from Quebec and pretending to be from France.

I'm unsure why it matters, or how it could be reasonably proven either way.

"Taking the piss" is some sort of British idiom whose meaning I've never learned. It's fairly common though, whatever it means.

"Prick" was probably directed at Olivier as an individual.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

One for the money, two for the show, three to get ready...

France and Qatar seal $7 bln Rafale fighter jet deal
Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:32am EDT

* Looking to modernise, Qatar to buy 24 jets
* Purchase comes amid instability across Middle East
* Dassault seals third Rafale sale this year

By John Irish and Cyril Altmeyer

PARIS, April 30 (Reuters) - Qatar has agreed to buy 24 Dassault Aviation-built Rafale fighter jets in a 6.3-billion-euro ($7 billion) deal, the French government said on Thursday, as the Gulf Arab state looks to boost its military firepower in an increasingly unstable region.
!'nn

Which would explain France voting for Sepp Blatter. How safe will this contract be if Qatar loses 2022? Any country, even France, embracing corrupt practice isn't usually seen as a good thing.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Olivier5 wrote:
PARIS, April 30 (Reuters) - Qatar has agreed to buy 24 Dassault Aviation-built Rafale fighter jets

Which would explain France voting for Sepp Blatter. How safe will this contract be if Qatar loses 2022? Any country, even France, embracing corrupt practice isn't usually seen as a good thing.

How far-fetched! I know you love football but it's not the center of the universe. War and peace are serious matters, and defense contracts are not based on sport events. The Federation Française de Football was more likely influenced by Qatar's massive investment in the Paris St Germain club than by Dassault.

Now, if you were talking of the huge bribes paid by BAE to the Saudi royals so that they buy the Eurofighter... you'd have a point!

Quote:

BBC lifts the lid on secret BAE slush fund
By Michael Robinson
BBC Money Programme

The Saudi embassy says it is shocked to hear allegations of corrupt practice
With exclusive interviews with three former insiders, BBC Two's flagship business series The Money Programme reveals a secret £60m slush fund used by the UK's leading arms maker, BAE Systems, to grease the wheels of the biggest arms deals in British history.

http://web.archive.org/web/20061221151825/http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3712770.stm

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Quote:

I'm not sure about that. Lordyaswas just seems to think that he has identified Olivier as being from Quebec and pretending to be from France.

Maybe. But then why does this "French speaking canuck" thing only comes up when he tries to lash out at me? Otherwise, when we're at peace so to speak, he seems quite happy to discuss Bourgogne vineyards with me...

Just to be crystal clear, i DON't feel insulted by that just on bit. But it's kinda odd. Just as odd as it would be if I went around saying he is not really British, but an "English-speaking canuck"...

0 Replies

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

War and peace are serious matters, and defense contracts are not based on sport events.

Don't talk rot, prestigious events like The World Cup and the Olympics are always at risk of corruption.

Why, when most of Uefa, voted against Blatter, did France vote for him? They can't really have thought he was doing a good job. Why was France so keen on Qatar, (probably the most inappropriate place on Earth to hold such an event?)

I think you've given us the answer.

There is a lot of corruption in the Arab world. Your use of a story from over eleven years ago gives a historical perspective, but little else. Back in 2004 an independent press brought the corruption to the public's attention, and BAE were taken to court.

Perhaps it's time for France to move with the times and follow Britain's lead in actually tackling such shady practices.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

To my knowledge, BAE was never taken to court.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Settled out of court, but corruption isn't something to be proud of. Neither of our county's ties to corrupt Arab regimes are something to be proud of. Unfortunately they do use their wealth to prejudice court and governmental practices.

Quote:

BAE Systems has agreed to pay a $400m (£257m) fine after admitting to "defrauding the US" over the sale of fighter planes to Saudi Arabia and Eastern Europe.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/defence/7169485/BAE-fined-400m-over-Saudi-payments.html

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Okay so the US managed to levy a fine on BAE. Good for them, I guess, but the fact remains that the British government never prosecuted BAE...

You are jumping to the conclusion that bribery was involved in the case of the Rafale Qatar sale. Of course it is not impossible but you have no facts whatsoever.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Yet. Plenty of circumstantial evidence.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Like what?

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

Quote:

Your mothers were hamsters

I say !!

Steady on...

0 Replies

@Olivier5,

Its not meant to dogfight . It can shoot down an F-16 way before a dogfight range and the F-16 and its radars and weapons systems cant find the F-35 . In other tests it outshot 3 x F-15's .

But you raise a very good point . The Mirage was the start of the good aircraft from France, unfortunately it suffered from only one engine . 80% of our Mirages crashed, giving rise to the nickname the Miracle (if it came back) . Its life of 1500 hrs had been extended to 4000 hrs . This is a very short life by modern standards .

Rafales do seem to be a very nice aircraft, but they are one of the last of the old generation . Typhoons do suffer from committee design . Stealth is definitely the future .

3 Replies

@Ionus,

I know (and stated) the F-35 is not meant to dogfight. But it may never live up to its expectations either. Too many glitches. Too expensive to buy and maintain. And if its stealth features ever are broken by the Russians (as they probably will at some point), it's gona loose much of its tactical advantages.

You're talking of the Mirage 3, a very old aircraft designed in the 50s. The Dassault bird preceding the Rafale was the Mirage 2000, also a pretty effective machine still flown by the French and other nations.

Almost every 50's & 60's combat aircrafts had what would now be considered unacceptable loss rates. This said, you are overstating these RAAF Mirage crashes quite a lot. Below is a list of all Mirage 3 bought by Australia and their service history. Only a minority seems to have crashed. Most were sold by the RAAF to the Pakistani Air Force in 1990.
http://www.adf-serials.com.au/3a3.htm

Quote:

Rafales do seem to be a very nice aircraft, but they are one of the last of the old generation

Been regularly updated and is now considered generation "4.5". Also, since none of the 5th generation jets are up and running yet (apart from the F-22), the Rafale is currently without rival (except the F-22).

2 Replies

@Olivier5,

What's going on in FIFA right now.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

That's ridiculous. All you have is a suspicion that OF COURSE the French are corrupt. The same baseless accusations have been peddled about the Indian MRCA for years on end, without a single shred of evidence. This is libel and nothing else.

1 Reply

@Ionus,

Almost every 50's and 60's fast jet had what would now be considered unacceptable loss rates (= very short life).

According to this website, your 80% seem to be exaggerated.

3 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

The PAF is still flying them, mind you. With their fair share of crashes of course, but few casualties. Generally the pilot ejects safely. The difference is striking with the Migs that the Indian Air Force is flying, which have killed so many of their pilots in routine flights.

Quote:

With the Pakistan being the world's largest current user of Mirages [3](200+ aircraft purchased from France, Australia, Lebanon, Spain and Libya), holding an extensive spare parts inventory and operating a dedicated Mirage Rebuild Factory, the ex RAAF Dassault and GAF built Mirages look like they will still be flying well past their 50th birthdays.

http://www.adf-serials.com.au/3a3-Pakistan.htm

0 Replies

@Olivier5,

No it's not. You don't consider the French vote for Blatter to be at all suspicious?

1 Reply

Dassault Rafales sold at last

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