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Can a Thruster that uses geomagnetic fields and superconductors generate lift?

 
 
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 12:54 am
As shown in the figure, the Thruster is provided with a geomagnetic field convergence layer, which is a superconductor material, and the geomagnetic field convergence layer repels the magnetic flux of the blocking geomagnetic field, so that the magnetic flux of the geomagnetic field passes through the narrow region between the upper and lower converging layers, and the convergence The strength of the geomagnetic field in the narrow area between the layers is enhanced. The Thruster is also provided with an energized coil. The lower end of the coil is placed at a narrow position between the converging layers.It against the Earth's magnetic field by electric current, you need to input electrical energy, and connect the battery at both ends of the coil.
--- My English is not good, the above content is automatically translated by Google.
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=47298.0;attach=1541610;image
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Type: Question • Score: 2 • Views: 615 • Replies: 14
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 05:31 am
@lidan2019,
Maybe. How much lift do you get for how much power input?
lidan2019
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 06:50 am
@rosborne979,
If the geomagnetic field can be enhanced by 100-100 times, if the coil uses a superconductor material and a larger current is passed, should it overcome gravity?
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 08:56 am
@lidan2019,
I have no idea. I suppose it depends on how much mass you are trying to lift, and how strong the superconductors are and how high you are trying to lift it.

We already have MagLev Trains, so we know electromagnetism can be used to lift things.

But the Earth's Geomagnetic field is not very strong in any given (small) location so I doubt it can be manipulated in an way sufficiently to result in any meaningful localized effect. You will have to do lots of math and experiment to figure that part out.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 09:05 am
@lidan2019,
You can't do work without expending energy. Is that what you are suggesting? Airplanes "overcome" gravity every day. All they need is energy in the form of fuel.

Are you trying to break the laws of Physics (in this case it would be the first law of Thermodynamics)?

lidan2019
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 09:17 am
@maxdancona,
Need to input current, need energy, can not break the laws of Physics
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 09:17 am
@lidan2019,
I would also point out that nothing you have described would have any direct effect on Gravity itself. Human beings are master manipulators of Electromagnetism, but we have no ability to manipulate Gravity at all. We don't even have any theoretical physics which tells us how to do that.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 09:21 am
@lidan2019,
lidan2019 wrote:

Need to input current, need energy, can not break the laws of Physics



I can't follow the link. I am not sure I understand the point?

Why is this "thruster that uses geomagnetic fields and superconductors" any better than the normal ways of generating lift like using rockets or jet engines?
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 09:35 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Why is this "thruster that uses geomagnetic fields and superconductors" any better than the normal ways of generating lift like using rockets or jet engines?

Rockets need propulsion mass and jet engines need to push against atmospheric mass.

I'm not supporting his supposition, only pointing out the difference between propulsion thrust mechanisms and EM Force mechanisms.

In theory, EM Thrust mechanisms would push against external EM fields rather than against external (or propelled) Mass.

But as you pointed out earlier, the real challenge with any of this is Thermodynamics. And in that sense, there is no comparative difference between the two mechanisms.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 09:40 am
@rosborne979,
If you accept that this "Geomagnetic Thruster" would take the same amount of energy then it wouldn't break the First law of Thermodynamics. We still have the law of Conservation of Momentum to contend with.... are you suggesting that this technology would break that law of Physics?

In the Earth's atmosphere, the conservation of momentum doesn't present much of an issue.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 10:07 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
are you suggesting that this technology would break that law of Physics?

No, of course not.

I don't know what this person is trying to get at or imply.
0 Replies
 
lidan2019
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 10:28 am
@ rosborne979,@maxdancona
My English is not good. It should be the inaccuracy of the previous translation. I will re-translate as follows:
Can a thruster using geomagnetic fields and superconductors generate a thrust?
As shown in the figure, the thruster is equipped with a geomagnetic field convergence layer, which is a superconducting material. The geomagnetic field convergence layer repels and blocks the magnetic flux of the geomagnetic field, so that the magnetic flux of the geomagnetic field passes through the narrow area between the upper and lower convergence layers. The geomagnetic field intensity B in the narrow area between the convergent layers of the geomagnetic field is enhanced.The thruster is also equipped with a electrifying coil, and the lower end of the coil is located in a narrow area between the convergent layers.
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/assets/47298.0/1541762.jpg
0 Replies
 
lidan2019
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 11:21 am
@lidan2019,
If the area of ​​the geomagnetic field convergence layer is large, use it to increase the geomagnetic field by 100-1000 times, if the coil uses a superconductor material and a larger current is passed, should it overcome gravity?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 11:37 am
@lidan2019,
There are several phrases that you are using that don't make any sense to me (in any scientific sense). I don't know what it means to "repel flux"... and your phrase "to overcome gravity" seems easy.

A rocket overcomes gravity. So does an elevator (for a short time as does any number of machines). You are giving us a lot of techno- babble without answering any of the questions we have asked.

0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2019 11:53 am
@lidan2019,
lidan2019 wrote:
If the area of ​​the geomagnetic field convergence layer is large, use it to increase the geomagnetic field by 100-1000 times

How do you use "it" to increase the geomagnetic field by any amount?

Are you proposing using a small superconductor induced EM field to distort geomagnetism? Even if you could do something like that I'm not sure how you would gain anything. Seems like you want to use ponderous amounts of electricity to try to distort a geomagnetic field to lift something, when you could just use your ponderous superconductor EM field to lift the thing directly. What are you trying to gain exactly?

It's not like the planetary geomagnetic field is something you can bunch up into a small area to do anything. Right?

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