5
   

Is Tsarnaev just an adolescent doing adolescent things?

 
 
Linkat
 
Reply Tue 7 Apr, 2015 05:37 am
According to closing arguments from the defense attorney -

“We don’t deny that Dzhokhar fully participated in these events, but if not for Tamerlan it wouldn’t have happened,” Clarke told the court. Clarke said Tsarnaev, who was 19 at the time of the attacks, “was an adolescent kid doing adolescent things.”

So do you think this was just an adolescent doing adolescent things?
 
jespah
 
  2  
Reply Tue 7 Apr, 2015 05:43 am
@Linkat,
Of course not.

But that's his only real defense, to throw Tamerlan under the bus (after having thrown him under a car).

Seriously, Dzokhar's best move during that 48 hour period was to run over his brother. And that is sick and sad no matter how you look at it.
korkamann
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Apr, 2015 05:54 am
@Linkat,
Quote:
So do you think this was just an adolescent doing adolescent things?


Dzhokhar, at 19, knew full well what he was doing even if he began his training by his brother at a much younger age. At 19 he was a poisonous cobra and carried out his role. I have no sympathy for Dzhokhar regardless of his lawyer's defense. Four people died and many maimed and injured because of his disregard for human life. Let the judge throw the book at him!
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Apr, 2015 06:12 am
@korkamann,
The judge has no book to throw. There are two outcomes here.

1) We put him in prison for life.
2) We kill him.

His lawyer is making the argument that he deserves to be locked into prison for life (with no parole) rather than being killed.

I think there is merit to this case... no one is saying that he should get off. But the fact that his brother was the driving force does matter as far as whether we should kill him or not.

In my opinion, the writing on the inside of the boat is the most difficult issue for the defense. If it weren't for that, I believe he would avoid the death penalty.

But what he wrote in the boat is pretty damning.

0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Apr, 2015 08:26 am
@Linkat,
19 year old's are responsible for their own actions. Or at least they should be. As far as I know the older brother didn't threaten him or coerce him. That would be the only defense of his actions I would even consider.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Apr, 2015 08:46 am
Personally I thought this a last ditch effort. It is lame. How can you compare murder and injury in such a cruel way to normal adolescent behaviour? And if it was these sorts of killings would be occuring left and right -- fortunately they do not.

Not to mention he was a legal adult at the time -- able to make his own decisions. We have kids much younger that are tried as adults when they have an even less horrific action. I honestly just cannot believe that the defense even tries to use this -- it makes the crime (even though they said he should be punished) minimized - building bombs and killing and maiming innocent lives as young as 8 is something that an adolescent does?

His brother wasn't that much older --- if this is adolescent behaviour does he suddenly become non-adolescent behaviour a year later simply because the age does not have "teen"at the end?
jespah
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Apr, 2015 09:07 am
@Linkat,
Well, they had nothing else, and the guy's entitled to as zealous a defense as they can muster. I wouldn't want to be his defense attorney. Not that I wouldn't want the work if I was still practicing. It's reasonable work even if the client is horrible. It's more that, can you imagine the meetings the defense team had with him?

Dzokhar, you have to plead guilty.
No.
Dzokhar, there's videotape of you.
No.
Dzokhar, they have your manifesto, etched on the inside of that boat you were found hiding in.
No.
Dzokhar, witnesses saw you run over Tamerlan.
No.
Dzokhar, this is pointless. All you can do is keep them from killing you, and you might be killed in jail anyway.
No.

Etc. etc.
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Tue 7 Apr, 2015 09:57 am
@Linkat,
Linkat wrote:
So do you think this was just an adolescent doing adolescent things?

Oh yeah. Boys will be boys. They like to play with explosives, and their driving habits are not the safest. Not much we can do about it, I guess.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  3  
Reply Tue 7 Apr, 2015 10:08 am
@Linkat,
Linkat wrote:
Personally I thought this a last ditch effort. It is lame.

Seriously this time: No it is not. As Max points out, Tsarnayev's lawyer isn't aiming for a not-guilty verdict here. He is aiming for life in prison without parole as opposed to execution. The fact that teenagers are suggestible and fall for all kinds of evil stuff is a valid argument for sparing Tsarnayev's life. While the jury may find that the arguments for a death sentence weigh more heavily, that doesn't mean this argument for life in prison is lame.
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Apr, 2015 10:15 am
@Thomas,
I am not a supporter of the death penalty - my personal opinion it is wrong to kill - that aside - I understand what the defense is doing...it is still lame though saying this an adolescnet doing adolescent things.

Parents of younger children say if Fred jumps off a bridge would you do so --- this is way beyond an adolescent act whether it is following someone or not -- adolescent doing adolescent things do not follow someone else to maim and murder many - younger kids wouldn't do this and if they did so they would be tried as an adult - so the excuse is lame.

Now granted as jespah says - there was probably nothing else the attorney to could - so basically it is a lame last ditch effort for a client that is pretty much undefendable.
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Tue 7 Apr, 2015 10:19 am
@jespah,
jespah wrote:
Dzokhar, you have to plead guilty.
No.
Dzokhar, there's videotape of you.
No.
Dzokhar, they have your manifesto, etched on the inside of that boat you were found hiding in.
No.
Dzokhar, witnesses saw you run over Tamerlan.
No.
Dzokhar, this is pointless. All you can do is keep them from killing you, and you might be killed in jail anyway.
No.

Etc. etc.

Thank you, Jespah, for filling my brain with memories of the "this kind of thing is not my bag, baby" scene from Austin Powers.


0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Apr, 2015 10:25 am
@Linkat,
Linkat wrote:
it is still lame though saying this an adolescnet doing adolescent things.

I agree the defense could have phrased it better.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2015 12:31 pm
So far he is guilty of all crimes ...there are 30 counts
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2015 12:36 pm
@Linkat,
Guilty of all 30 counts
0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2015 12:38 pm
@Linkat,
Sorta lengthy, Link, and maybe tedious to most a2k'ers but here's my answer

http://able2know.org/topic/273043-1
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2015 03:09 pm
@Linkat,
Linkat wrote:

I am not a supporter of the death penalty - my personal opinion it is wrong to kill - that aside - I understand what the defense is doing...it is still lame though saying this an adolescnet doing adolescent things.

Parents of younger children say if Fred jumps off a bridge would you do so --- this is way beyond an adolescent act whether it is following someone or not -- adolescent doing adolescent things do not follow someone else to maim and murder many - younger kids wouldn't do this and if they did so they would be tried as an adult - so the excuse is lame.

Now granted as jespah says - there was probably nothing else the attorney to could - so basically it is a lame last ditch effort for a client that is pretty much undefendable.

So then, you would decide on a life sentence and not the death penalty?
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2015 03:19 pm
@jespah,
jespah wrote:
Dzokhar's best move during that 48 hour period was to run over his brother. And that is sick and sad no matter how you look at it.

Are you saying that he intentionally tried to run his brother over?

jespah
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2015 05:11 pm
@InfraBlue,
He ran him over and dragged him. But Tamerlan was also shot by the cops. It's hard to say specifically what caused the elder brother's death (it was probably a combination of these issues), but it's certainly convenient that Tamerlan is dead and things can be blamed on him.

I suspect that, if it was Dzokhar who was dead, that Tamerlan's lawyers would be figuring out a way to turn Dzokhar into some sort of Pied Piper figure and pin things on him.

But this is fairly typical in a case like this. The defense is fighting to keep Dzokhar from the death penalty; today's 30 convictions weren't surprising at all. Plus it's pretty typical to pin things on the dead co-conspirator, as that person cannot counter the defense and the dead don't need to build a case.
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Apr, 2015 05:32 pm
@InfraBlue,
If I were on the jury I would give the sentence according to the law..in the case it appears it would be a death sentece. However I would not be on the jury as I would state I am against it. In either case I have no tears or concern if he gets the death penalty.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2015 10:57 am
@jespah,
Quote:
I suspect that, if it was Dzokhar who was dead, that Tamerlan's lawyers would be figuring out a way to turn Dzokhar into some sort of Pied Piper figure and pin things on him.

But this is fairly typical in a case like this. The defense is fighting to keep Dzokhar from the death penalty; today's 30 convictions weren't surprising at all. Plus it's pretty typical to pin things on the dead co-conspirator, as that person cannot counter the defense and the dead don't need to build a case.


Hmmm, I think the defense has a legitimate point to make. I think that Dzokhar can claim to have been swayed by Tamerlan in a way that Tamerlan could not have claimed (if he were the surviving brother).

It is pretty clear that Tamerlan was the one in charge. Tamerlan was the older brother. He was the extremist. People who knew them both knew that Dzokhar deeply respected and looked up to his brother. Dzokar was a pothead... he didn't live the extremist life when he wasn't with his brother.

What screws Dzokhar's defense are the words he wrote when he was in the boat. If it weren't for the boat, I think he would have a pretty good case.
 

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