@JLNobody,
JLNobody wrote:
I think it is better to say--instead of reaching or achieving Nirvana--realizing the already existing (primordial) state of Nirvana.
I've heard it explained several different ways. One is the definition the Buddha gave which he referred to nirvana as "blown out" and used the analogy of a candle flame being extinguished. But some think this sort of thing has a negative connotation and they don't like it. It could just be a reference where the mind stream or what ever you call it that continues from one life to another simply stops being reborn. Like a candle flame once it is out where does it go?
The second explanation is that the Buddha continues to exist but refused to admit it in fear that listeners would attach themselves to a nirvanic existence which would ultimately become another hindrance. So by not talking about nirvana as an existence or non-existence it avoids the attachment issue. Even though many still get attached to it and assume nirvana is the equivalent of some kind of heaven or paradise.
Mostly this second explanation tends to come out of the more superstitious schools that talk about three different bodies of a Buddha. The earth body which is subject to impermanence. The Dharma body which is the wisdom that all enlightened beings share and becomes the base source of everything that is taught or explained that helps sentient beings realize nirvana. The third body is the Buddha body which is capable of transforming itself millions of times so that it can be reborn in various worlds to help teach the dharma meanwhile the Buddha's "real" body remains in a state of para-nirvana untouched. And they continue with this Buddha body stating all beings actually share this one body it is one and the same for all sentient beings but they haven't experienced it so they assume their identity is separate.
It is a difficult subject because the Buddha warned about pondering or asking questions about non-existence or continued existence after this existence ends. He simply stated that pondering such questions do not lead to realization so they should be abandoned. But you can read between the lines and come up with a limited amount of options.
My take on it is this. If there is some form of consciousness that transcends death then that consciousness is not as lucid or connected to itself until it acquires a new identity to attach itself to, thus being reborn over and over. It is the seed consciousness (if you will) that has as it's basis the desire for existence which compels it to seek another identity, perhaps motivated by previous attachments. Like a moth to a flame. The moth is not aware that the flame is deadly yet still strives to seek it out. The Buddha has realized this occurs and has found a way to sever the draw so continued existence ceases. This cessation is nirvana, ultimate release from the bondage of continued suffering.
Perhaps all that is too simplistic or over stating it. Perhaps all the goal of buddhism is just to develop a way in which you try to live harmoniously with all existence rather than against it or tangled up with it. You develop a compassion for all existence and thus try to avoid clashing with it as much as possible so as to avoid any conflicts that would otherwise arise. You then become content with the idea that you no longer strive or benefit off the rest of existence purely for your own existence to flourish.
There is just too much pollution within Buddhism to really know if any of it has been fabricated for another purpose or the real underline meaning has been lost due to wild interpretations that get stuck in the current understanding.
I wonder some times if the enlightened beings avoid engaging with those who have not naturally arrived at the correct point in their thinking. Sort of like you wouldn't approach a five year old child with college level academics. You could try and they might understand a little but some things may require certain foundations to be in place first before a broader understanding is capable. So maybe the awakened avoid those who are not yet ready for a deeper delve into the solution that leads to nirvana. Maybe even approaching a person who is not at the right point could be more harmful to them than not so it is better to avoid them until they are?
