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Has Anyone Since Buddha Reached Nirvana, Really?

 
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jun, 2004 11:32 am
An illustration of the difficulty in understanding what "enlightenment" is--from this dualistic side of the Gateless Gate: The Buddha is quoted as having proclaimed:

"I have truly obtained NOTHING from COMPLETE, unexcelled Enlightenment."
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nn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jul, 2004 01:52 pm
ok, hallarious ques. no one ever ever reaches the point where they are all conscious ever!!!!!!!!!! and vegatarians, if they're vegatar. they are obviously not enlightened, they are rather sheltered and think they are, we have meat out for a reason people, to eat! and are there enlightened people on this earth of course, their have been enlightend ind. throughout our whole lives, not just hundreds of years ago even it's all logical, they're aren't great, just logical, if you read what they believe its not that hard to fig. out how they came to that realization. here's on for you you want to be enlightened?
well what is all consciousness, you must know what it is to be closed minded to be open minded, that is all consciousnes and man willALWAYS be scraping the bare surface of it so relax, noone know everything, its just the people who open their eyes and see that seem to cuz no one else does, we're all sheep
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bbeachum
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2004 08:34 am
enlightenment
i have been reading a book called Kundalini Yoga - In search of the Miraculous - by Osho (www.osho.com). He died only 10 years ago and according to the Dalai Lama - Osho is an enlightened master who is working with all possibilities to help humanity overcome a difficult phase in developing conciousness. He claims to be enlightened and his concepts are extremely intriguing. The book is a documentation of a week long seminar at his meditation school/retreat in India. Im just starting to attempt his techniques for raising kundalini energy (which he claims leads to enlightenment). I recommend these books (there are 2) to anyone who is interested in this subject. He definitely has spiritual insight beyond the norm.
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Not Too Swift
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 12:00 pm
Quote:
Do you think anyone since Buddha has reached nirvana?

Has anyone living today actually reached nirvana?



Everyone who died and hasn't been reborn. Statistics N/A...but I'm not worried. Sad
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tcis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 12:32 pm
Not Too Swift wrote:
Quote:
Do you think anyone since Buddha has reached nirvana?

Has anyone living today actually reached nirvana?


Everyone who died and hasn't been reborn. Statistics N/A...but I'm not worried. Sad


Now that opens a new question:

There's more people (souls) being born here now than have ever died on earth, if you add it all up. Where are all these "extra" souls coming from?
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JLNobody
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 12:39 pm
Technically speaking, we are all Buddhas (it's our nature, a benefit perhaps of our evolutionary status), but few of us realize it. Dogen, the founder of Soto Zen argued that meditation is not to achieve enlightenment; it is to "authenticate" it. By that I understand him to say to "realize" it, that which we already have/are. Mystical enlightenment, I must repeat, is far too subtle too talk about from this side of realization. We end up talking about dualistic caricatures. The advice is always to meditate, not to talk or reason. Smile
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 12:42 pm
yes
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SCoates
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2004 09:22 pm
Whoa, guys, I reached nirvana yesterday. It was great. PM me for details.
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extra medium
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2004 09:53 pm
SCoates wrote:
Whoa, guys, I reached nirvana yesterday. It was great. PM me for details.


Why did you come back?
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SCoates
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2004 10:49 pm
Ah, the banter of the unenlightened...
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JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2004 10:49 pm
It is said that Nirvana is the same as Samsara (the world of illusions). The trick is to understand the meaning of this equation. Once that is done, we have to agree with SCoates, with one reservation. He has not "reached" Nirvana; he's always been in Nirvana, like the rest of us. Now the question will arise that if the world of illusion is the same as the world of enlightenment, why the fuss?
Yes, why the fuss?
A zen monk once told me a story about an incident at his temple in Los Angeles. One night an elderly Japanese man came to the temple in great distress, asking to consult the abbot for help. The monk asked him to wait while he advise the abbot of his presence. The went into the abbot's room and told him of his petitioner. The abbot told him to wait a few minutes and then to admit the man to his room. When the elderly man entered, the abbot was attired in his most formal and intimidating robes. Both bowed. But when the elderly man straightened up he was shocked to see that the abbot remained bowed, and deeply bowed. When the abbot straightened himself he saw the look of shock on the man's face. He asked him why the look. The man said that he couldn't understand the great show of honor. The abbot answered, "I am honoring your enlightenment." The man said "What enlightenment? I've come to you for help; I am miserable." the abbot answered "You don't like enlightenment?" And gave him instruction on how to "authenticate" his enlightenment.

There's the saying that fundamentally zen mind is not different from ordinary mind. I suppose the point is that we have to learn to appreciate our "ordinary" mind, to see the eternal IN the flow of ordinary experience and stop wanting more. It's the desire and grasping for more, the comparing of the real to some ideal, that leads to and maintains our existential dissatisfaction/spiritual malaise, what the Buddha referred to simply as "suffering."
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SCoates
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2004 10:51 pm
You sound jealous, JLN. Tell you what, you trade me your favorite shooter, and I'll tell you how to reach nurvana too. That's right... spelling mistakes are allowed in nirvana.
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JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2004 11:04 pm
It's a deal. Big of you.
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SCoates
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2004 11:26 pm
You called my bluff.


... can I still have the shooter?
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JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2004 11:32 pm
Of course, if I can find it.
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Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jul, 2004 11:44 pm
JL, I think that incident occurred at the Hewit St. Zendo. When Natalie and I went there to arrange our marriage, we were met by this little old guy who was sweeping up trash. We knew that the highest ranking Soto priest in America was in charge there, and asked to see him, or if he was busy one of the priests. The little old guy didn't seem to speak much English, but asked us to wait and went inside the temple. Five minutes later a young priest, who later became a dear friend, came out and escorted us inside. You guessed it, in full ceremonial robes was the little old janitor. He made most of the arrangements, conducted the ceremonies himself, and gve us a poen written in his own hand. Quite a guy.
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Jul, 2004 12:07 am
A lovely story, Asherman.
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JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Jul, 2004 08:05 pm
Yes, Ash. It was the Hewitt St. Temple, off first street in Japan Town. This was in the late fifties, so I can't remember the name of the abbot. Do the names, Reverend Yamashita or Yamamoto sound right to you?
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Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Jul, 2004 08:07 pm
Yamashita, I think, but old men's memories are decidedly suspect.
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JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Jul, 2004 08:17 pm
Did you ever meet a David Eaton. He was ordained there (his buddhist name (Eido). He tried to start a "church" here but failed because zen aspirants were alienated by his refusal to ever do zazen with them. He was very knowledgeable in religious theory (a masters in Religlious Studies with an emphasis on Buddhist studies), sincere and worked very hard, but that one very central thing--his dislike of sitting--deprived him of legitimacy in their eyes.
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