Does everyone agree that we evolved from Africa?

@edgarblythe,

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Amazing how you can turn it on its head like that. You know as I do that religion is the sacred cow.

See what I mean, you attempt to make any criticism of evolution all about religion.

@Leadfoot,

That's because religion is a sacred cow that wants desperately to kill evolution science ( with some notable exceptions). There is a movement decades old still trying to displace science in schools with religion of the Christian variety in the US. Don't know which other religions are like that. Religion and personal wearing of blinders is all I can see that makes one think evolution cannot have happened.

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Science doesn't bestow on a field the status of theory without overwhelming evidence it is proven.

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@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

Evolution has become the sacred cow dogma that must not be questioned.

No it hasn't. Sheesh.

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@Leadfoot,

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Oh good grief, you want to compare minor changes like that over 450 million years that takes an expert to identify with the emergence and death of entire species like dinosaurs and literally hundreds of others?

Then dont try to argue from a point of implied expertise.Estimates of the number of animal species that live and had lived on this earth hovers around 5 BILLION, Youve mentioned two that give you difficulty in detecting evolution, Ill give you two more , the COELOCANTH , and the METASEQUOIA glyptostroboides. (There are about under a hundred which Im sure youd have difficulty detecting ofwhat their evolution trail was composed . SO what is yer point? Really?, Lets assume that we hqve 100 species of animals who experts couldnt detect any evidence of evolutionary changes.

Percentage data points out a fact that 99.9999% of species were able to provide you visual evidence that they evolved like Darwin predicted. That fact alone doesn't give you any license from any earned expertise that evolution hadnt occurred, it just means that you dont have the necessary skills to work in the field. (Neither do I but Im closer because Ive got actual graduate training and Ive got two PhD paleontologists on staff who , when I showed them your post, merely said,
"Oh yeh? who's he think he is, Edward Drinker Cope"?? (Thats a paleo geek speak , Cope was part of an infamous overtrained but underscrupled duo of paleoscientists who fought each other for naming rights and dinosaur finds in the lqte 1800's).

In other words, we are all allowed our opinions, but please try to have yours based upon something more than a Discovery Institute tag line, or some Google searches.

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@rosborne979,

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Leadfoot wrote:
Evolution has become the sacred cow dogma that must not be questioned.

No it hasn't. Sheesh.

Try teaching any alternative to evolution as the origin of species in a public school if you believe that.

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Teaching any narrative which has religious overtones gets shut down because of the the first clause of the first amendment to the constitution--the establishment clause. Courts don't really care about the slaughter of cows, sacred or otherwise. They do care about maintaining the separation of church and state, and it appears that the ID crowd is sufficiently dull-witted that they cannot either deny that their agenda is religiously driven, or that there is any scientific underpinning to their claims. Those are the two hurdles they have to vault, and they have failed miserably in every attempt.

Whining by religious types is all too common, and hilarious when they try to portray their dilemma as evidence of persecution. But christians have always loved to play the martyr--as long as don't have to actually suffer.

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@farmerman,

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SO what is yer point?

I thought the point should be obvious.

If the same forces of random variation, environmental pressure, etc. were responsible for the mind boggling variety of fauna that have come and gone over the last 450 million years, it seems unlikely that those same forces would leave the horseshoe crab essentially unchanged.

Makes me wonder if there was something else responsible for all that 'evolution' in other species.

And just as a reminder, no one has EVER directly observed new species emerging by evolution. Evolution, as it applies to adaptation is real and accomplishes some amazing things (pretty good design feature, eh Smile

but crediting it with 'the origin of species' is a force fit.

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@Leadfoot,

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If the same forces of random variation, environmental pressure, etc. were responsible for the mind boggling variety of fauna that have come and gone over the last 450 million years, it seems unlikely that those same forces would leave the horseshoe crab essentially unchanged.

and your reasoning for adopting this unlikeliness is? Evolution doesnt seem to follow any real paths of engineering. Thats the damn beauty of it. We just look for the data and evidence of any lifeform we see and compare em to others and study their relationships or differences to similar species separated by time or geography .
Your insistance that Limulii have remained unchanged since the Ordovician is, as I said before, the result of your lack of skills , and not a fact of paleontology.

Im sure if we sat down across a table we could argue the points without becoming insulting. Its the media weve chosen which allows creeping insults that enter -in to be the only things we seem to remember about each other.

However, if you insist on that tack that denies "visible evolution on cockroaches or Limulii" , Ill keep counter-insisting that its all because youre not playing on your court and youre just flat wrong.

I unnertand the "Sudden appearnace of life of its "kind", fully formed" BS and categorically dismiss the entire phrase because its always started by someone who should know better that is picked up by folks who know way less.

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@Leadfoot,

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Makes me wonder if there was something else responsible for all that 'evolution' in other species

I guess you would because it would be at least one arrow in your quiver Neh? Lessee, 5 Billion species show evolution, 100 show measurqble but not enough for the "hobbyists to see" Thatd be 1/50 000 000

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And just as a reminder, no one has EVER directly observed new species emerging by evolution.

Except the Grnts t Princeton observing speciation of birds in the Galapagos, or the Yale team that meaured the speciation of several dozen cichlids that were trapped behind power dams in the mid 1700's and completely speciated away from the parent species(Some of these new species even became carnivorous). That data was published in the 1970's.

I think youve bought and double-dipped another "Dr Dino" evo-bit or something from Steve Austen at The Discovery Institute.

Youve gotta do the reviews of the counter published material that (usually) is taken on as semester projects by grad students in Canada

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@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
Leadfoot wrote:
Evolution has become the sacred cow dogma that must not be questioned.

No it hasn't. Sheesh.

Try teaching any alternative to evolution as the origin of species in a public school if you believe that.

That argument is complete bullshit and I think you know it. You could do so much better than reciting stupid propaganda. Very disappointing.

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No one is teaching any alternative to evolution because no one has come up with an alternative which is scientifically sound.

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@Setanta,

Leadfoot totally ignores explanations of fact concerning our courts' histories with this entire subject. The establishment clause has been at the center of this entire discussion yet the IDers seem to wish it away from their plate and are in denial based on forced ignorance. WHY IS THAT??

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@farmerman,

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However, if you insist on that tack that denies "visible evolution on cockroaches or Limulii" , Ill keep counter-insisting that its all because youre not playing on your court and youre just flat wrong.

I think that sums up your arguments.

Thank you for your time.

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@Leadfoot,

when Im right Im right. You are herein denying that you always wind up denying (or avoiding). After all skippy, you are the one who insists that Horshoe crabs didnt evolve .
If you have an arguement to counter mine regarding Limulii and Cockroaches youd bring it up neh?. All youve done is, like some little petulant kid, insist that they havent evolved at all. Why not just bring up your own data rather than just deny mine or Edgar's???

Read"Empty quiver"

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Cheddar Man: DNA shows early Briton had dark skin
By Paul Rincon, Science editor, BBC News website
3 hours ago

A cutting-edge scientific analysis shows that a Briton from 10,000 years ago had dark brown skin and blue eyes.

Researchers from London's Natural History Museum extracted DNA from Cheddar Man, Britain's oldest complete skeleton, which was discovered in 1903.

University College London researchers then used the subsequent genome analysis for a facial reconstruction.

It underlines the fact that the lighter skin characteristic of modern Europeans is a relatively recent phenomenon.

More:
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42939192

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@Olivier5,

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gene SLC24A5 - light skin
gene MFSD12 - dark skin

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/10/new-gene-variants-reveal-evolution-human-skin-color

Does everyone agree that we evolved from Africa?

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