FBM
 
  1  
Fri 24 Apr, 2015 11:23 pm
@Patches,
More empty rhetoric? How about some evidence-based, genuine factual support for your claims?
Patches
 
  1  
Fri 24 Apr, 2015 11:29 pm
@FBM,
Quote:
How about some evidence-based, genuine factual support for your claims?
Although you do not consider it as evidence. It is a genuine photograph of the Holy Spirit. I am not the liar that you are.
FBM
 
  1  
Fri 24 Apr, 2015 11:32 pm
@Patches,
Patches wrote:

Quote:
How about some evidence-based, genuine factual support for your claims?
Although you do not consider it as evidence. It is a genuine photograph of the Holy Spirit. I am not the liar that you are.


That's the very claim that needs to be supported with evidence. Can you? Got any? I don't think you're a liar; I'm pretty sure you've been completely taken in by the charlatans in robes.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Sat 25 Apr, 2015 12:28 am
@FBM,
neologist wrote:
Cain no doubt married one of his sisters. As did Seth and the rest of Adam's sons.
FBM wrote:
I don't see any of that in the scriptures. Why "no doubt"? Seems to be a lot of doubt and disagreement about it.
I suppose one would have to use his power of reason as there were only 2 humans created as the first pair. If you have doubts, perhaps it's time for you to use your power of reason.
neologist
 
  2  
Sat 25 Apr, 2015 12:58 am
@FBM,
neologist wrote:
If you actually believe the scriptures support infinite punishment for finite sin, or that the soul is immortal, then I can't be of much further help.
FBM wrote:
I'm just posting passages from the scripture. If it says 'eternal,' that's what it says.
You don't seem at all interested in what the original texts actually say, just what others have told you they say. You fall into the same trap as the gullible churchgoer, just with a different outcome.
neologist wrote:
As for inconsistencies other than pure straw men, I can't think of any on your part But since you keep posting the straw men, I imagine some will show up eventually.
FBM wrote:
Please point out the straw men that I've made.
I don't know if this applies in your case, though I suspect it may:
Many people look at world conditions and rightly conclude this world is not under control of a God of love. But there is a straw man at work in that perception. The world is currently not under God's management. If it were, Satan would not have been able to offer the world to Jesus. Most preachers neglect to teach this to their congregations; so, if you have failed to make this distinction, you would be placing the blame on Jehovah for birth defects, and all manner of human suffering. Go back and review your posts to see if you may have done this a few dozen times in this thread.

You could still say the Bible is not for you and I would understand that. You could still say it does not prove God exists, and you would have legitimate argument. But to continue to fault the Bible for things it does not say, well that is what straw men are about.
Smileyrius
 
  1  
Sat 25 Apr, 2015 02:13 am
@Patches,
Quote:
And as a building is in ruins after a fire, so is the soul. Man can restore a building after a fire. But only God and His Son can restore a soul.


A building if left to prolonged fire, it does not merely burn out a few walls and windows, the building collapses upon itself, it is reduced to ashes, a state where no restoration may take place. Subjecting something to prolonged fire destroys entirely.

What do you make of Death and Hades being thrown into the fiery lake my friend?
Smileyrius
 
  1  
Sat 25 Apr, 2015 02:20 am
@FBM,
Quote:
that this mythical god allegedly made man, then set up a system of severe punishment because what it created didn't live up to its demands and expectations, viz, worship. Narcissistic, petty and unimaginably cruel, this god.


If the soul that dies perishes with his thoughts, what punishment could the putative God do to man other than not give him life once more whether on Earth or in Heaven? is that severe? If you don't mind me being a little playful, it is only as severe a punishment as that which the flying spaghetti monster dishes out, or Zeus, or indeed my brothers pet chicken.
Patches
 
  1  
Sat 25 Apr, 2015 07:50 am
@Smileyrius,
Quote:
A building if left to prolonged fire, it does not merely burn out a few walls and windows, the building collapses upon itself, it is reduced to ashes, a state where no restoration may take place. Subjecting something to prolonged fire destroys entirely.
God created the soul and does restore it as well.

Quote:
What do you make of Death and Hades being thrown into the fiery lake my friend?
I haven't given it much study nor thought.
Smileyrius
 
  2  
Sat 25 Apr, 2015 08:29 am
@Patches,
So is it your understanding that "Hell" is a device God uses to burn and break down a soul so that he can repair it? if not please help me to understand your thought more clearly. I have no wish to misrepresent your standpoint

The idea of Death being thrown into a fiery lake is an interesting one, I advise a study of the matter, see if you can fit it in with your current understanding of what fire represents.
Patches
 
  1  
Sat 25 Apr, 2015 08:39 am
We were created to be with God in the afterlife. To go against this is to go against all that we were created for. We would have been better off had we not been born.

Mathew 26:24. "The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born."
0 Replies
 
Patches
 
  1  
Sat 25 Apr, 2015 08:48 am
@Smileyrius,
Although, there are/were places known as hell. Hell is simply the state or condition of being without God in the afterlife. Faith in the life, death and resurrection in the Son of God [Christ] delivers us from this condition. Atonement can be made for the spiritually dead so that they can be delivered from hell.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Sat 25 Apr, 2015 08:48 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

neologist wrote:
Cain no doubt married one of his sisters. As did Seth and the rest of Adam's sons.
FBM wrote:
I don't see any of that in the scriptures. Why "no doubt"? Seems to be a lot of doubt and disagreement about it.
I suppose one would have to use his power of reason as there were only 2 humans created as the first pair. If you have doubts, perhaps it's time for you to use your power of reason.


I was. I was using in the most rational way, viz, to objectively doubt the veracity of the biblical creation story. I invite you to do the same. There are only so many magical explanations a person can take before going, 'Do what now?'

Quote:
A 1994 study found a mean excess mortality with inbreeding among first cousins of 4.4%.[116] Children of parent-child or sibling-sibling unions are at increased risk compared to cousin-cousin unions. Studies suggest that 20-36% of these children will die or have major disability due to the inbreeding.[9] A study of 29 offspring resulting from brother-sister or father-daughter incest found that 20 had congenital abnormalities, including four directly attributable to autosomal recessive alleles.[117]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incest#Between_childhood_siblings
0 Replies
 
Patches
 
  1  
Sat 25 Apr, 2015 08:56 am
http://mormondoctrines.net/files/2012/07/BibleLoveofChristQuote.jpg
FBM
 
  1  
Sat 25 Apr, 2015 08:58 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

You don't seem at all interested in what the original texts actually say, just what others have told you they say. You fall into the same trap as the gullible churchgoer, just with a different outcome.


I'm not quoting interpretations, but the exact words from the scripture.

Quote:
I don't know if this applies in your case, though I suspect it may:
Many people look at world conditions and rightly conclude this world is not under control of a God of love. But there is a straw man at work in that perception. The world is currently not under God's management. If it were, Satan would not have been able to offer the world to Jesus. Most preachers neglect to teach this to their congregations; so, if you have failed to make this distinction, you would be placing the blame on Jehovah for birth defects, and all manner of human suffering. Go back and review your posts to see if you may have done this a few dozen times in this thread.


Here is where you're the one parroting what you've been taught. I don't know how the JW scriptures differ from the "mainstream" texts, but I don't know of anything in the scriptures I've studied that support your interpretaion. As such, what I have posted is not a straw man. I don't need to review my posts to know this much.

Quote:
You could still say the Bible is not for you and I would understand that. You could still say it does not prove God exists, and you would have legitimate argument. But to continue to fault the Bible for things it does not say, well that is what straw men are about.


Again, you'll need to be specific about where I have done that. Also, I don't think pointing out omissions in a text or someone's argument constitutes a straw man appeal, as long as those omissions demonstrate a legitimate logic breakdown. Maybe we're not using the same definition of straw man.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Sat 25 Apr, 2015 08:59 am
@Patches,
And ensure your mascara doesn't run.
Patches
 
  1  
Sat 25 Apr, 2015 09:02 am
Rejoice! For the work of salvation has been done. And we can now be heaven with the Father through His Son, Jesus Christ. All man's longings for love, happiness, and family can now be fulfilled.
0 Replies
 
Patches
 
  1  
Sat 25 Apr, 2015 09:05 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
And ensure your mascara doesn't run.
I'm a boy and am married to a woman. Are you?...Drunk...Laughing
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Sat 25 Apr, 2015 09:09 am
@Smileyrius,
Smileyrius wrote:

If the soul that dies perishes with his thoughts, what punishment could the putative God do to man other than not give him life once more whether on Earth or in Heaven? is that severe? If you don't mind me being a little playful, it is only as severe a punishment as that which the flying spaghetti monster dishes out, or Zeus, or indeed my brothers pet chicken.


I'd rather be playful, actually. Very Happy If I understand the JWs and Jews correctly, neither of them believe in eternal punishment for the soul. The former (I think) believe in the possibility for a select few to be given immortality in this very body, and I don't think the latter believe in an afterlife in the first place. I haven't looked into it that much, though, so maybe neo or someone can correct me.

As for the soul, I've never seen evidence for such a thing. Death seems pretty well explained by mundane biology; I don't see the need for a deity in order to explain that. Sometimes you get chewed up by an animal, sometimes you just kick the bucket peacefully in your sleep.
FBM
 
  1  
Sat 25 Apr, 2015 09:25 am
@Patches,
Patches wrote:

http://mormondoctrines.net/files/2012/07/BibleLoveofChristQuote.jpg


http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/11081069_1535722013333491_208005696668433271_n.jpg
0 Replies
 
Patches
 
  1  
Sat 25 Apr, 2015 09:36 am
@FBM,
Quote:
As for the soul, I've never seen evidence for such a thing.

Surely, this photograph was taken on film, before digital cameras, photoshop and holographic projectors.

http://www.bryanreesman.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/ghost9.jpg

It is not that evidence doesn't exist. It is just that some people are intellectually incapable of seeing it as evidence.

Again, faith is all that is needed. Where intellect fails you. Faith will not.
 

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