The rationalization of our own Belief Systems

Good point, BoGoWo. Most natives were healthy in mind and body until those missionaries arrived and brought biological and theological disease into their midst.

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Sorry, but neither of you boys know of what you speak. Try reading The Spirit of the Rainforest. In this case, the diseases that were encountered were assigned (by independent study, btw, after a false accusation by rival anthropologists was made that anthopologists introduced measles on purpose[!?]), in order of likelihood to:
- land developers/prospectors
- academic anthropologists
- missionaries
The major difference is that the missionaries came equipped with medicines, and gave of their time and energy to eradicate the disease.

As far as theological diseases, the book also addresses that, too. It also addresses those "more meaningful lives", where the life expectancy was in the high twenties.

an anonymous Amazon reviewer wrote:

Anyone who thinks the Yanomamo culture is idyllic must be a male: The women live in chronic danger of gang-rapes, savage beatings by their husbands, and kidnapping. And men suffer one of the highest homicide rates in the world from the frequent raiding between villages. If you think it's a romantic way of life, why don't you try it?

It is exceedingly rare that missionaries are the first "modern" contact to any people group. The much more frequent situation is that traders and adventurers have already infected the folks that missionaries visit. Small wonder that missionaries have a medical tradition.

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jnhofzinser wrote:

.........In this case, the diseases that were encountered were assigned (by independent study, btw, after a false accusation by rival anthropologists was made that anthopologists introduced measles on purpose[!?]), in order of likelihood to:
- land developers/prospectors
- academic anthropologists
- missionaries
The major difference is that the missionaries came equipped with medicines, and gave of their time and energy to eradicate the disease.

As far as theological diseases, the book also addresses that, too. It also addresses those "more meaningful lives", where the life expectancy was in the high twenties.

an anonymous Amazon reviewer wrote:
Anyone who thinks the Yanomamo culture is idyllic must be a male: The women live in chronic danger of gang-rapes, savage beatings by their husbands, and kidnapping. And men suffer one of the highest homicide rates in the world from the frequent raiding between villages. If you think it's a romantic way of life, why don't you try it?

It is exceedingly rare that missionaries are the first "modern" contact to any people group. The much more frequent situation is that traders and adventurers have already infected the folks that missionaries visit. Small wonder that missionaries have a medical tradition.

i will happily grant all of the above (to a degree), and retract 'missionaries" for 'others' including missionaries.

[the description is perilously close to a typical L.A. "Hood", don't you think?]

And i should add my own personal position at this point:
I have no romantic allusions about the joys of various old, outdated, traditional ways of life, be they as practiced by various aboriginal groups, those in a 'rural' setting, or the inhabitants of megacities; where we know better, let the old ways die. But use exhaustive research to make those decisions.

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Terry & jnhofzinser:
Thanks for your take on the subject, with which I am in full agreement.

BoGoWo & jnhofzinser: "rational" thought is ofcourse what we humans traditionally thought was good thinking......and the current word
used to refer to this myth is "rationalization".

ReX:
The questions you are raising re the hierachy
between "why" abd "how" are interesting and valid.
but I really would appreciate if you focus on the core thesis , .....Do we first "adopt" our belief systems , for whatever reason, and rationalize their credibility?

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Sorry, I didn't check my previous post before subnitting it...........it should end by inserting the word "then" before 'rationalize their credibility?'

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Let's face it; our parents has a great deal of influence on our 'belief' system.

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for those who approach it 'honestly';

"everything" has a great deal of influence on our 'belief' system!

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cicerone imposter & BoGoWo:
Agreed. Our parents, and indeed "everything" has a great deal of influence on our 'belief system.But , once accepted, do most of us "rationalize its credibility"
in order to continue to believe it when confronted with the myriad of other belief systems that were "born" the same way, and ofcourse, as passionately defended?

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When I observe how the religion of the parent influences their children's belief system, it usually continues on for generations with little change. I think religion has a big influence on people's lives whether they follow it's teachings or not.

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are you solons using "belief system" interchangably with "value system?"

and a shout out to my dear old friend fresco, who, btw knows the difference.

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Kuvasz

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Kuvasz:
Belief systems. like Christianity, Buddhism,
Muslim, etc., even materialism vs. idealism.,theism
vs. atheism, etc., etc., certainly contain elements of a "value system'.......but that should not present a problem to the evaluation of the thesis......
irrespective of the fact that your friend fresco
has stated earlier that there is no objective reality
since "Same/Different" depends on the observer and his own point of view, which is subjective.
No argument with me on that point.....
my argument is with his curt dismissal of the question as being "null", while at the same time providing the important point that the observer
projects his subjectivity on everything , which in fact means that it is a complete rationalization of his
reality....of his belief systems included.
Would not a Zen master observe your comments , and mine, herein, and conclude that how else can a non-objective reality be, but "null"?

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fresco;
I just realized that I should have addressed
my above post to both you and Kuvasz, for which I apologize.

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well, fresco and i agree on the thesis that objective reality is subjective. and our completely concurrent rationalization of reality implies a movement. now if we can get you to agree we will have ourselves a religion.

you will find that by distilling the issue down to essence, the fulcrum is whether values are reflections of mechanical responses to environmental stimuli or arise from something else.

is there a ghost in your machine or not?

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kuvasz correctly highlights "movement" as the key issue in "rationalization". Belief systems are not "fixed" but are subject to constant revision. Nor do such "systems" necessarily exhibit total coherence and consistency since the dynamics "blurs" the boundaries of the subcomponents. We might consider them to be a snapshot of the mutual interaction between "inner" and "outer" states or perhaps a temporary equilibrium between the two.

This very discussion epitomizes "different" equilibrium positions with respect to the word "reality", and a tidal flux both within and between communicators.

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By belief system do you include the entire inventory of notions an individuals has? How about ranking in terms of scope and permanence? Let me suggest a tentative scale like: impression, opinion, bias, insight, frame of referencee/perspective/viewpoint, belief, ideology, worldview, cosmology, and onward.

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JLN, If you did, you'd be a genius! Wink

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C.I.

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JLNobody:
My thesis does not involve a consideration of rank or progression of the various belief systems that can be considered. My general reference was to a conviction of a "truth",or a doctrine,or a creed....a particular philosophy or religion...with an inherent complex of principles forming a coherent whole.
As you suggested, there can be a much larger inventory of "notions" that an individual may have, but for purposes of this discussion, I do not believe they would distort any conclusion.

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Quote:

By belief system do you include the entire inventory of notions an individuals has? How about ranking in terms of scope and permanence? Let me suggest a tentative scale like: impression, opinion, bias, insight, frame of referencee/perspective/viewpoint, belief, ideology, worldview, cosmology, and onward.

Let us say so, from the humble to the profane. And what is alluded to in the initial post seems to be a question of balance. How does one wear the inner mantle alongside the outer one?

Each of us has to figure it out for ourselves, do we not?

you can be taught how to fall and how to rise, but you have to figure out when to do it all on your own.

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The rationalization of our own Belief Systems

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