15
   

What is The Reason We Will NOT Be in Self Driving Cars?

 
 
Reply Thu 19 Mar, 2015 11:21 pm
I think American Liability Law. One hacker causes lots of cars to crash over the span of 7.5 seconds and people to die and then BOOM, the industry is dead.

What say you?
  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Discussion • Score: 15 • Views: 4,808 • Replies: 58
No top replies

 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Mar, 2015 11:46 pm
@hawkeye10,
The idea makes me weak in the knees
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Mar, 2015 12:11 am
@hawkeye10,
It's plausible. Who to sue. Who to sue. The car maker or the owner of the car found at fault.

Way to go, hawk. I thing you've killed an industry before google even got it going.
0 Replies
 
raprap
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 Mar, 2015 12:31 am
@hawkeye10,
BS, fail safes and single fault analysis built into the systems will protect into all systems better than an EMP will cause catastrophic failures in today's already vulnerable vehicles.

When actuarial science demonstrates that the operating safety of autonomous cars far outweighs that of distracted drivers the insurance companies will make their preference clear.

Look at it this way Hawk, you can get a bicycle iff'n you really have to pilot.

Rap
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Mar, 2015 12:35 am
@raprap,
Quote:
BS, fail safes and single fault analysis built into the systems will protect into all systems better than an EMP will cause catastrophic failures in today's already vulnerable vehicles.


Fail safes? When the US government says that our electric grid is easily hacked, when we have as much bank fraud as we do, call me skeptical.
raprap
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 Mar, 2015 01:01 am
@hawkeye10,
The electric grid is so old that it could hardly be considered an engineered system. Single failure analysis has found so many single fault cut sets that of course its vulnerable.

Banks and insurance companies tend to be conservative and cling to older technologies that they're comfortable with. Again the trick is to engineer redundancy to remove single failures--.

Funny when you consider, the same technology and processes that are and will be developed to respond to single faults will be rewarded in all these services (including autonomous vehicles) by the same actuarials.

Rap

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Mar, 2015 01:23 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Fail safes? When the US government says that our electric grid is easily hacked, when we have as much bank fraud as we do, call me skeptical.


We already have drive by wire cars that had been shown that hackers can disable the brakes on a national TV news show so being skeptical seems more then call for.

Quote:


http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/researchers-hack-cars-to-remotely-control-steering-and-brakes-8733723.html


A pair of US hackers sponsored by the Pentagon’s research facility Darpa, have demonstrated their ability to hack the computers in cars, remotely controlling the acceleration, braking and steering inside a Ford Escape and Toyota Prius.

This new threat is thanks to the growing ubiquity of electronic control units (ECUs); small computers that are installed in the majority of modern cars in order to control a whole range of functions from heated seats to emergency crash avoidance.

Charlier Miller, a security engineer at Twitter, and Chris Valasek, the Director of Security Intelligence at IOActive received an $80,000 grant from the US government in order to research these new vulnerabilities. The pair will present their full findings at hacker conference Def Con in Las Vegas next month.

The hacks were accomplished by connecting to the cars’ computers via the on-board diagnostics port, usually used by mechanics to identify faults. From this entry point Valasek and Miller sent a series of instructions to the car that overrode commands from the driver.

The pair were able to change the read-out on the fuel tank and the speedometer, disable the brakes, tighten the seat-belts (the cars engage this function in the event of a crash) and even take control of the wheel, remotely swerving the vehicle to the side – a hack that could be deadly on a busy road.

Toyota were dismissive of the research, claiming that the cars were not actually ‘hacked’ because the work required physical access to the car. Valasek and Miller have responded by noting that wireless access to cars’ on-board software has been possible since 2010, with a range of techniques from Bluetooth bugs to app malware used to gain access.

The pair said that connecting the dots between remotely accessing a vehicle’s software and hacking those same systems isn’t difficult.

Valasek and Miller hope that their research will alert the car industry to the dangers of on-board electronics. "We would love for everyone to start having a discussion about this, and for manufacturers to listen and improve the security of cars,” Miller told the BBC.
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 Mar, 2015 03:27 am
@BillRM,
US military drones were supposedly secure, but iran hacked one and brought it down. This is new very expensive technology.
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Mar, 2015 05:09 am
in north america i see the main problems being Infrastructure Inadequacies and in the usa specifically, a Litigious Society, though sadly we canadians are following in your footsteps more and more in the personal injury lawsuit bs
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Mar, 2015 08:32 am
@djjd62,
What is interesting to me is that I am sure those cars will be program to obey all speed limits and on many highways the limit is set too low to the point that the traffic flow is five to ten miles an hour faster on average.

As these cars become more common we will have rolling roadblocks or at least until and if the speed limits are re-adjusted.

0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 Mar, 2015 08:53 am
@hawkeye10,
One shooter kills several people in seconds.

The gun industry survives.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Mar, 2015 08:54 am
@raprap,
raprap wrote:
the insurance companies will make their preference clear.


insurers already like the idea quite a bit (or at least some actuaries do)
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Mar, 2015 08:59 am
People are horrible at driving.

There are 33,000 deaths from automobile accidents each year. Self-driving cars will significantly lower the number of deaths.

The fact that people drive irrationally causes traffic jams. If you look at traffic pattern, there are "waves" that exist hours after a disruption is cleared. This is because people drive too close going into a slow down, the pattern is never broken.

Self-driving cars will act logically, meaning that you will be able to have more cars on the road with fewer problems with traffic patterns.

Self-driving cars are coming... I hope sooner rather than later.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Mar, 2015 09:21 am
@maxdancona,

Quote:
Self-driving cars will significantly lower the number of deaths.


Sorry but I am not at all sure that in the real and very complex world computers can deal with all the situations on the roadways that humans do as a matter of course.

An the first time a computer control car decided that a roadway continue into a lake and as a result drown a family it will be front page news worldwide.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Mar, 2015 10:03 am
Oh, airliners now could be program to take off and then fly and land without a human pilot on board so how many of us would be willing to get on such a plane?
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 Mar, 2015 10:08 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
What is The Reason We Will NOT Be in Self Driving Cars?

First of all, I don't know I agree with the premise of your question. Some day, we very well might be in self-driving cars.

But if you're asking why it's taking so long, my best guess at the answer would be this: Some problems that self-driving cars have to solve involve something very close to artificial intelligence. Is this object lying on the street an injured child or just a rock? Is this washed-out long thing over there a line or not? If it's not a line, how do I tell where the road is? If it is a line, does it mark the middle or the side of the road?

Self-driving cars are harder than we thought because artificial intelligence is harder than we thought. (So is big-data analytics good enough to fake artificial intelligence.) But that doesn't mean self-driving cars will never happen, nor that we will never be in them.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Mar, 2015 10:21 am
By the way when a child run out into the middle of the road in front of a car and the decision is to run the car off the road into a pole or hit the child and the computer program then either does one or the other I can see the lawsuits.

Say the car have a number of children in it and running into that pole killed one or more of them?

Is the computer going to know if there are children in the car and take that into account when deciding whether to run off the roadway or hit the child or not?

The world is complex indeed and the decisions that can come up when driving are complex also.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Mar, 2015 10:27 am
@Thomas,
just as some airliners are pretty much autonomous , cars will probably become like that (minimal human intervention except in leaving nd entering home territory). On board tv scanners are here now, and some mfrs interconnect the tv scanners with decision making software. We have not yet (except in a few autonomous units in construction, mining or farming).
made a decision tree gizmo that has been applied to cars. Its evolutionary.

I was looking at two SUVs last Fall and in both of these the response modes in crash avoidance and distance maintenance is getting pretty awesome. The only reason I didn't buy one at that time was that one of the car compnies will be coming out with a same unit with a TURBO that can get about 200 Bhp pr liter
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Mar, 2015 10:30 am
@BillRM,
decision tree software now is able to do some pretty complex avoidance decisions. (The tree has waaay many more options than 2)
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Mar, 2015 10:38 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
decision tree software now is able to do some pretty complex avoidance decisions. (The tree has waaay many more options than 2)


Sorry but Newton's laws can not be change by a decision tree and there will be any numbers of events every year with 100 millions cars traveling billions of miles where there is only two choices by newton's laws neither one good.

Such as driving off the roadway into an object or hitting a child.

0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
  1. Forums
  2. » What is The Reason We Will NOT Be in Self Driving Cars?
Copyright © 2018 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 12/12/2018 at 01:09:47