What good does religion offer the world today?

@Leadfoot,

How does a pedestal eventually end up as a ditch?

How about equality?

I don't really see any pedestal in the book of Genesis in regards to women...

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@Leadfoot,

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But assuming we are talking about the only good thing it offers, it tells you not to put anything or anyone above knowing God.

Yeah but if we need to be told to not put anything or anyone above knowing the god, how sincere or genuine will our intention to do so be? Such an instruction is obviously designed for, and directed at, those whose affections lie other than toward the god.

In essence, then, religion teaches us that we can love our wife and our children, and appreciate the good things the Earth offers us as long as we don't come off looking like we love and appreciate them more than we do the god.

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@Leadfoot,

Such vile thing never happened

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@TheCobbler,

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@Leadfoot,
How does a pedestal eventually end up as a ditch?

A very apt question.
When it becomes apparent, either to the one on the pedestal or the one who put them there, that the one on the pedestal does not belong there, one of them will often throw the pedestal sitter in the ditch.

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How about equality?

Equality between man and women - Great.
Making either equal to God - Not so great.

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I don't really see any pedestal in the book of Genesis in regards to women...

I could argue that Adam taking Eve's advice over God's (about the tree thing) was doing that but I'm not sure that is a valid example.

When the experience of interacting with God was as direct as it was in that day, I don't think such an explicit directive would be necessary. When you are standing before God such questions about priorities would never enter your mind.

I don't really know when it did but certainly by the time of Moses it was apparently necessary. It's covered by the First commandment. The fact that we needed such a commandment is kind of a sad statement about mankind. It was God's desire that we find those things in our hearts (which is the part that atheists often get right before religionists do).

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@Glennn,

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Yeah but if we need to be told to not put anything or anyone above knowing the god, how sincere or genuine will our intention to do so be?

I guess because before you come to know God it's easy to find other things to put in first place, even if you intention is sincere. It can be easy to make that mistake since you are told that it is good and proper to love your wife and family and it's easier to know them than God. As I said before, some religions are based just about 100% on love of family. God gets put in second place.

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Such an instruction is obviously designed for, and directed at, those whose affections lie other than toward the god.

Those that have no affection for God are not likely to even hear the instruction. It is directed at those who have put something ahead of their affection for God.

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In essence, then, religion teaches us that we can love our wife and our children, and appreciate the good things the Earth offers us as long as we don't come off looking like we love and appreciate them more than we do the god.

Just 'looking' like you have the right priority isn't good enough. God knows your heart. If you don't get it right there, don't even bother. That's another place that atheists get it right.

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@Leadfoot,

Are you really referring to adam and eve as actually once- existing individuals and serpent temptation through an apple as an real past event?! You... you mean you believe them to be real... just... wait... adam and eve... ARE YOU KIDDING US?

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@momoends,

I'm not sure what angle you are coming from. In theological discussions, you either assume God, creation, etc. are real or you know from personal experience.

Are you saying that the whole 'God' thing is a crock? And why pick out the Adam and Eve thing to be so incredulous about?

But to answer your question, I don't know if those were their names but if God did create man as a unique species, there had to be a first pair. The tree story is just symbolism for their choice to live forever in ignorance of good and evil or have that knowledge and eventually die. They chose the latter. In my opinion, God fully expected and wanted them to make that choice.

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@Leadfoot,

Not even the pope believes in that first couple existence...

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@momoends,

Are you appealing to the pope as an authority?
I accept neither him nor any other man as the authority in the matter. The pope, after all, is the same guy who sentenced Galaleo for telling the truth.

I would be interested in seeing where the pope declared that though.

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@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

The pope, after all, is the same guy who sentenced Galaleo for telling the truth.

No he's not, because that would make him very old indeed. Galileo died long before the current pope was even born.

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@izzythepush,

Pope, as in the one anointed to speak for God. (According to them)

In that respect they are all the same guy.
I don't keep up that close so I don't know the latest on his 'infalibility'.

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@Leadfoot,

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It can be easy to make that mistake since you are told that it is good and proper to love your wife and family and it's easier to know them than God.

Do you actually believe that the reason we know it is good and proper to love our wife and family is because we were told?

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It is directed at those who have put something ahead of their affection for God.

Yes, and my point stands that one cannot be commanded to change one's order of priorities when it comes to who they love or who is more important to them.

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@Leadfoot,

Thought you were a catholic christian...my mistake

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@Leadfoot,

But in the real sense, the only sense that makes sense, they're lots of different people, like American presidents. Imagine if Obama and Dubya were really the same bloke, he'd have some right ******* issues.

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@Glennn,

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Yes, and my point stands that one cannot be commanded to change one's order of priorities when it comes to who they love or who is more important to them.

No, but if your priorities are such that you can't be bothered to find out if your maker is worthy of that top spot, it probably means you don't believe in him anyway. You have that option. No argument with that.

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@izzythepush,

Presidents and popes are two different realms. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and all that. The president does not claim to speak for God.

Well, W kind of hinted that he did at times, but that was W.

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@Leadfoot,

but the priests make up what a god says. Some actually tell you that they "talk with Gawd"

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@farmerman,

I'm sure most religious people claim to "talk" to god, but it has to be a one-way discussion. If they hear a response, you gotta wonder if they're sane or not. I think most play it by air, and let things happen as they will. At god's direction, of coarse!

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@Leadfoot,

I've put in the time and experience that would qualify as being bothered to find out if the god exists.

Even if I had found that such a being exists, there is no reason for me to love it more than I would love a wife and children. Nor would I love or worship a being that would command me to put it first among all things. Such a command could only come from an ego, and only an ego would accept such a mandate.

If the alleged god asked you to kill your son in order for you to prove that you are putting it first, you wouldn't do it. So regardless of what you say, your love for such a being does not come first. And before you claim that the god would never ask such a thing of you, I would remind you that there is a precedent for such behavior on the part of the alleged god.

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@farmerman,

It's possible they did, but how do you KNOW that for fact?

I know you don't consider the effort worth while but some of us do like to test the credibility of the story.

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What good does religion offer the world today?

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