What good does religion offer the world today?

@Amoh5,

You have to ask the question Amoh, did these things happen, why did they happen, how did God feel about what occurred. the Hebrew scriptures are a record of Gods covenants and his dealings with his people, and yes awful things happened but that is why study is so important to me, I have to be able pitch my faith against these realities, and understanding the culture and the extents of the laws go a long way towards that. Unfortunately I am one who believes that all scripture is "god breathed" or inspired, so I take a holistic approach to scripture, all the while giving most weight to the words of Jesus. I'll open up a chat in a more appropriate thread and maybe we can discuss it properly.

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@Smileyrius,

I do apologise my brother if I seem naggy or have gone overboard with my condemning oponions. But I do understand your view where good moral ethics can actually be an evolutionary process with time.
Like if we compared the ethics of today compared to an ancient society's ethics in a primitive unforgiving environment, we would be inclined to say that they are being unusually lenient ethically, considering what usually happens to prisoners of war at that time.
I guess I was just over-emphasing the primitive stage of moral ethics compared to Lord Jesus or today.
But maybe the interpretation of God's moral ethics through the ages has been an evolutionary process as well?

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@Smileyrius,

Quote:

mosaic law gave a degree of protection against rape

Women were the property of men.

So, are you saying that the god did not approve of mosaic law?

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@Smileyrius,

Quote:

A man had to wait 30 days after taking charge of a female war captive to take her as his bride, he had a 6 month "binding period" or until the arrangement was consummated in which she would live in his home and he could observe her ways and decide if he wished to make a more permanent decision, during this time if he did not wish to forge a life contract through consummation with this woman he could send her away, but on her terms and she could no longer be considered as a slave.

Describe these terms.

And was mosaic law sanctioned by the god, or was it the invention of men who didn't believe that no meant no?

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@Smileyrius,

Nice job of filling in some of the details of mosaic law. Never had time to research that myself.

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@Smileyrius,

Yes, thanks for exposing some of the details of mosaic law. It really exposes the misery that was unjustly perpetrated against females. Am I correct in my understanding that the god sanctioned this misery?

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@Smileyrius,

Very well, then. I will assume that the god sanctioned this misery perpetrated against females. Of course my next question is how you find it within yourself to love and worship such a god.

1 Reply

@Glennn,

Again, didn't sanction, just didn't intervene other than to give the limitations in mosaic law to human practice. That he didn't approve seemed evident by the spanking immediately after. My take on it anyway.

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@Leadfoot,

Where did mosaic law come from, and what part did Moses play in that?

1 Reply

@Leadfoot,

Quote:

That he didn't approve seemed evident by the spanking immediately after.

The god spanked them for making laws that condoned the treatment of women as property? Could you cite the source for that?

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@Glennn,

Quote:

Where did mosaic law come from, and what part did Moses play in that?

My understanding of mosaic law (including 10 commandments) from General reading of OT is this:
The people were getting very uneasy with direct interaction with God, very confused about right thing to do, etc., so asked the recognized spiritual leader of the time (Moses) to ask God for straight forward rules to follow. This, they thought, would simplify their lives and keep them out of trouble.

God never intended for that to be the basis for how men lived their lives but he honored the request. Figured, 'you want rules, ok, I'll give you frig'n rules'. So he gave the first 10 on the stone tablets and then 600+ more after that, all through Moses.

I think he did it just to prove the point that it was a lousy System to live by. Obviously it didn't work well at all.

I don't have specific verses, this is just my general impression from reading the OT books.

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@Leadfoot,

Here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

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@Leadfoot,

Quote:

600+ more after that, all through Moses.

Quote:

. . . didn't sanction . . .

So it was the god that sanctioned this misery perpetrated against females.

1 Reply

@Glennn,

No, remember that the laws moderated the injustice toward women that was already in practice as smiley pointed out. It limited it, not sanctioned it.

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@Leadfoot,

So, you're saying that women weren't treated as property under mosaic law?

And just to be clear about what we're talking about. Moses gave the law. Moses got the law from the god.

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It's nearly impossible to give an answer to someone who insists the discussion must abide by his premises.
We know slavery is wrong.
We know misogynystic treatment of women is wrong.
To assume that because they continued to exist under Hebrew law, they must be part of God's arranngement, shows a sophomoric misunderstanding of the fundamental issues arising from the rebellion described in Genesis, chapter 3.

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@Glennn,

Nope, not saying that at all. Just saying it wasn't sanctioned or advocated by God. The mosaic law just took some of the harsher treatment out of practice, or at least tried to. Nobody is saying women were not treated badly.

1 Reply

@Leadfoot,

Quote:

A man had to wait 30 days after taking charge of a female war captive to take her as his bride, he had a 6 month "binding period" or until the arrangement was consummated in which she would live in his home and he could observe her ways and decide if he wished to make a more permanent decision, during this time if he did not wish to forge a life contract through consummation with this woman he could send her away, but on her terms and she could no longer be considered as a slave.

Since you seem to be answering for Smiley, describe these terms.

1 Reply

@neologist,

Quote:

shows a sophomoric misunderstanding

The god gave Moses the law. Moses conveyed the law to the people who couldn't hear the god like Moses could. Nothing hard about understanding that. Your bringing up of the issues arising from the rebellion shows a sophomoric attempt to put the necessary spin on this discussion to make the turning of women into property seem . . . not so bad really.

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@Leadfoot,

Quote:

Just saying it wasn't sanctioned or advocated by God.

And so of course the god told Moses to tell the people to stop with the mistreatment of women, and treating them like the property of men, right?

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What good does religion offer the world today?

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