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UN to Caterpillar:Stop selling bulldozers to Israel.

 
 
Brand X
 
Reply Thu 17 Jun, 2004 09:20 pm
Quote:
UN to Caterpillar: Stop selling bulldozers to Israel
Last Updated Wed, 16 Jun 2004 14:21:22
GENEVA - A U.S.-based company has been warned by a United Nations expert not to sell bulldozers to Israel because of the way the Israeli army is using them.


Bulldozer maker may be accomplice in human rights violations

Jean Ziegler, the UN's special expert on the right to food, sent a letter to Caterpillar Inc. saying that the company could be considered an accomplice in human rights violations.

The letter to Caterpillar chief executive James Owen expressed Ziegler's concerns "about the actions of the Israeli occupation forces in Rafah and in other locations in Gaza and the West Bank."

A resolution passed this year by the UN Human Rights Commission extends responsibility to protect rights to "non-state actors."

Ziegler's letter, dated May 28, said the Israelis are "using armoured bulldozers supplied by your company to destroy agricultural farms, greenhouses, ancient olive groves and agricultural fields planted with crops."

There's been no comment from Caterpillar headquarters in Peoria, Ill.

The letter also says Caterpillar bulldozers have been used to destroy "numerous Palestinian homes and sometimes human lives, including that of the American peace activist Rachel Corrie."


FROM MARCH 16, 2003: American protester killed in Gaza

Corrie, 23, was crushed to death in March 2003. She was trying to stop an Israeli army bulldozer from destroying Palestinian homes in a Gaza Strip refugee camp.


Source

Just as with gunmakers, Caterpillar has NO responsibility for how their products are used after the sale. The company needs to tell the UN where to go.

Caterpillar doesn't even sell an armored dozer, they were armored by the Israeli Defense Force.

The United States Army has purchased several armor kits from the Israeli Defense Force, who armors the dozers, and used them to produce similarly equipped Caterpillar D9s.

So if we're using any of them in Iraq I guess the UN food boy will write us another letter.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 2,408 • Replies: 54
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Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jun, 2004 10:34 pm
Hey, who sells those vests to the Palestinians?
0 Replies
 
Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jun, 2004 03:38 am
Quote:
Just as with gunmakers, Caterpillar has NO responsibility for how their products are used after the sale.


That's why I am against guns...It is easy to just have no responsibility. Do not forget Israel does not seem to listen to the UN; maybe this US-based company does.
0 Replies
 
swolf
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jun, 2004 07:13 am
Rick d'Israeli wrote:


That's why I am against guns...


There are four basic reasons for something like the second ammendment.

Every one of the founding fathers is on record to the effect that private ownership of firearms, the 2'nd ammendment, is there as a final bulwark against the possibility of government going out of control. That is the most major reason for it.

At the time of the revolution and for years afterwards, there were private armies, private ownership of cannons and warships. . . The term "letters of marque, and reprisal" which you read in the constitution indicates the notion of the government issuing a sort of a hunting license to the owner of a private warship to take English or other foreign national ships on the high seas, i.e. to either capture or sink them. The idea of you or me owning a Vepr or FAL rifle with a 30-round magazine is not likely to have bothered any of those people.

The most major motivation for the present generation of gun-control laws, i.e. the problem with drug-dealers owning AKs, is a drug problem and not a gun problem. Fix the drug-problem, i.e. get rid of the insane war on drugs and pass a rational set of drug laws, and both problems will simply go away. A rational set of drug laws would:

  • Legalize marijuana and all its derivatives and anything else demonstrably no more harmful than booze on the same basis as booze.
  • Declare that heroine, crack cocaine, and other highly addictive substances would never be legally sold on the streets, but that those addicted could shoot up at government centers for the fifty-cent cost of producing the stuff, i.e. take every dime out of that business for criminals.
  • Provide a lifetime in prison for selling LSD, PCP, or any other sort of Jeckyl/Hyde formula.
  • Do the same for anybody selling any kind of drugs to kids.


Do all of that, and the drug problem, the gun problem, and 70% of all urban crime will vanish within two years.

But I digress. The 2'nd ammendment is there as a final bulwark against our own government going out of control. It is also there as a bulwark against any foreign invasion which our own military might not be able to stop.

Just prior to WW-II breaking out in the Pacific, a meeting took place in Tokyo in which a number of Japanese general officers asked Isoroku Yamamoto, the only one of their number to hve spent any time in the United States, what the problem was; why not simply invade the place and get it over with. Admiral Yamamoto replied that the problem was not the US military, that there were fifty million lunatics in this country who owned military style weaponry and practiced with it, and that there would be "a rifle behind every blade of grass". This apparently bothered him a great deal more than the 300,000 or so guys in uniform prior to the war.

A third obvious reason for private ownership of firearms is to protect yourself and your family from criminals and wild animals. Criminals in fact are not the sum total of problems in the world which firearms can help in dealing with. In particular, we read about tens of thousands of people being killed every year by poisonous snakes in India; it's hard to picture that happening if the people were armed.

Finally there's a fourth reason for the 2'nd ammendment, which is to provide the people with food during bad economic times. When you listen to people from New York and from Texas talk about the depression of the 30's, you hear two totally different stories. The people in New York will tell you about people starving and eating garbage, and running around naked. The Texans will tell you that while money was scarce, they always had 22 and 30 caliber ammunition, and that they always had something to eat, even if it was just some jackrabbit.

Eating is habit-forming; in any general societal breakdown which might be caused by a war, a major terrorist success, or whatever other cause, this last rationale for the 2'nd ammendment could very quickly become the most important.
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jun, 2004 07:21 am
If I were the head of Caterpillar, I would tell the UN where to stick it. The company is selling non-military material, so where does the UN get off telling them or any company that they cannot sell a product to another country? I guess next the UN will decide that since Israeli soldiers eat food to energize themselves prior to using these bulldozers that food companies will be told not to sell food to Israel.
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jun, 2004 07:26 am
I say make a tunnel through the UN headquarters with one of these dozers then tear gas the whole building, and when the rats run out herd them into paddy wagons and start over.
0 Replies
 
swolf
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jun, 2004 08:19 am
Brand X wrote:
I say make a tunnel through the UN headquarters with one of these dozers then tear gas the whole building, and when the rats run out herd them into paddy wagons and start over.


Herd them onto bananna boats deadheading back to whereever they came from for the next load of banannas...
0 Replies
 
swolf
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jun, 2004 08:29 am
Re: UN to Caterpillar:Stop selling bulldozers to Israel.
Brand X wrote:
Quote:
UN to Caterpillar: Stop selling bulldozers to Israel
Last Updated Wed, 16 Jun 2004 14:21:22
GENEVA - A U.S.-based company has been warned by a United Nations expert not to sell bulldozers to Israel because of the way the Israeli army is using them.




http://home.mchsi.com/~reaganite/steamrollers.jpg
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jun, 2004 08:37 am
Re: UN to Caterpillar:Stop selling bulldozers to Israel.
swolf wrote:
Brand X wrote:
Quote:
UN to Caterpillar: Stop selling bulldozers to Israel
Last Updated Wed, 16 Jun 2004 14:21:22
GENEVA - A U.S.-based company has been warned by a United Nations expert not to sell bulldozers to Israel because of the way the Israeli army is using them.




http://home.mchsi.com/~reaganite/steamrollers.jpg


Someone's going to hell for that picture... :wink:
0 Replies
 
swolf
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jun, 2004 08:48 am
The candidates for hellfire in the picture are Corrie's parents and the people running Evergreen "university"...

http://webpages.charter.net/timandlauren/RCorrie.gif
0 Replies
 
the reincarnation of suzy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jun, 2004 01:33 pm
Interesting point, actually. Should Caterpillar decide to stop selling to Israel, at least there's one company doing the right thing from a human rights perspective.
Who sells Palestinians those vests? Probably another US company.
Very interesting!
Although Americans might not see or care to acknowledge the connections we have to terrorist activities of all sorts, you can bet other countries and terrorists do.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jun, 2004 10:04 pm
the reincarnation of suzy wrote:
Interesting point, actually. Should Caterpillar decide to stop selling to Israel, at least there's one company doing the right thing from a human rights perspective.
Who sells Palestinians those vests? Probably another US company.
Very interesting!
Although Americans might not see or care to acknowledge the connections we have to terrorist activities of all sorts, you can bet other countries and terrorists do.


All of the dozers sold to Israel are used for the vile oppression of Palestinians? There's no construction going on?

You're probably right about the vest company. Only an evil American company would sell vests to Palestinians.
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jun, 2004 10:36 pm
USA says to Israel "Yes yes harder harder do me in the..."

Ok, it was just someone from the USA who was married to an Israeli and not the USA in an official capacity but it was close enough....
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jun, 2004 10:46 pm
Laughing
0 Replies
 
Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2004 07:14 am
swolf wrote:
Do all of that, and the drug problem, the gun problem, and 70% of all urban crime will vanish within two years.


Is it really that easy swolf? Somehow I just get the ugly feeling it isn't, but hey: why don't we try?
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2004 07:39 am
Brand X wrote:
I say make a tunnel through the UN headquarters with one of these dozers then tear gas the whole building, and when the rats run out herd them into paddy wagons and start over.


Should be doing that to the white house.
0 Replies
 
swolf
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2004 03:02 pm
Rick d'Israeli wrote:
swolf wrote:
Do all of that, and the drug problem, the gun problem, and 70% of all urban crime will vanish within two years.


Is it really that easy swolf? Somehow I just get the ugly feeling it isn't, but hey: why don't we try?


What I'm proposing with drugs is an ideal solution. In real life, if we only had the two simple choices, we'd be better off to simply legalize it all than to do what we're doing.

150 Yeares ago, the United States was a free country. There were no drug laws, and there were no meaningful drug problems. How bright should anybody need to be to figure that one out?
0 Replies
 
Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2004 03:08 pm
Quote:
150 Years ago, the United States was a free country. There were no drug laws, and there were no meaningful drug problems. How bright should anybody need to be to figure that one out?


And by that you conclude drugs are the only factor of importance in solving these problems?
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2004 03:35 pm
bm
0 Replies
 
swolf
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2004 03:40 pm
Rick d'Israeli wrote:
Quote:
150 Years ago, the United States was a free country. There were no drug laws, and there were no meaningful drug problems. How bright should anybody need to be to figure that one out?


And by that you conclude drugs are the only factor of importance in solving these problems?


To my thinking, the problem of gang violence in California is a drug problem and not a gun problem. That's correct.
0 Replies
 
 

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