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Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful on the ground that they are brethren?

 
 
Reply Sat 31 Jan, 2015 06:21 am

Does "Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful on the ground that they are brethren" mean "for slaves who have god-fearing masters (the masters are believing God), they (the slaves) must not be rude to their masters, even though the slaves know that they (the slaves) are brothers of their masters"?

Context:

Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be defamed. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful on the ground that they are brethren; rather they must serve all the better since those who benefit by their service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these duties. If any one teaches otherwise and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching which accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit, he knows nothing; he has a morbid craving for controversy and for disputes about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, base suspicions...

---1 TIMOTHY 6:1-4
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View best answer, chosen by oristarA
contrex
  Selected Answer
 
  2  
Reply Sat 31 Jan, 2015 06:34 am
Yes, it does mean that, and it is a thoroughly deplorable statement.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jan, 2015 06:40 am
@oristarA,
As an aside: the oldest bible texts don't use the word "slave". The Vulgata speaks of "servants" (quicumque sunt sub iugo servi) as do the even older Greek versions (οσοι εισιν υπο ζυγον δουλο). Luther et.al. translated it as such (Knechte) to German.
timur
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jan, 2015 06:44 am
@contrex,
You present those things in the rosiest terms.

I'd call it crap..
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jan, 2015 07:29 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

As an aside: the oldest bible texts don't use the word "slave". The Vulgata speaks of "servants" (quicumque sunt sub iugo servi) as do the even older Greek versions (οσοι εισιν υπο ζυγον δουλο). Luther et.al. translated it as such (Knechte) to German.


See here: (most of the versions do use slave or slavery):

http://biblia.com/bible/nlt/1Ti6
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jan, 2015 08:32 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:

See here: (most of the versions do use slave or slavery):

http://biblia.com/bible/nlt/1Ti6
I did use your website. And when I compared the versions ... I can't get your "most" as a result.

But whatever: certainly "servants" can be translated differently. (My Greek isn't good enough to tell, whether the Latin translation is correct or not.)
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jan, 2015 09:42 am
@contrex,
contrex wrote:

Yes, it does mean that, and it is a thoroughly deplorable statement.



It is a regret that Obama said "it was because the precepts of Jesus Christ spoke to me in terms of the kind of life that I would want to lead—being my brothers' and sisters' keeper, treating others as they would treat me."

Slaves and slave-owners are brethren (brothers and sisters), yet the former has to obey Jesus Christ's precept to work under the yoke of slavery and the latter live in freedom. I don't know what the keeper means in Obama's speech.
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jan, 2015 09:43 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

oristarA wrote:

See here: (most of the versions do use slave or slavery):

http://biblia.com/bible/nlt/1Ti6
I did use your website. And when I compared the versions ... I can't get your "most" as a result.

But whatever: certainly "servants" can be translated differently. (My Greek isn't good enough to tell, whether the Latin translation is correct or not.)


You've really compared? How?
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 31 Jan, 2015 10:25 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:
You've really compared? How?
a) with that above (your)
but since that are only translations as of about 100, 150 years back, I looked up
b) digitalised original books.

You must have compared it as well, otherwise you couldn't have written:
Quote:
most of the versions do use slave or slavery
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jan, 2015 11:55 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Of all 24 versions of Bible, 19 refer to "slave(s)" or "bondservants". That is 80 percentage. Only 5 versions, including Latin version you've mentioned, refer to "servant(s)". That is 20 percentage. And we must have noticed that even this 20 percentage is conditioned by "under the yoke", which implies a state of slavery. Because no modern servant would work under the yoke.

I've copied all relative texts of the 24 versions as follows. Lest you be blind again to the statistical fact.

============================

1) Version NLT:
Chapter 6

All slaves should show full respect for their masters so they will not bring shame on the name of God and his teaching.

2)) ESV:
Let all who are under a yoke as bondservants1 regard their own masters as worthy of all honor, pso that the name of God and the teaching may not be reviled.

3) NKJV:

Let as many bondservants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and His doctrine may not be blasphemed.

4) HCSB:
All who are under the yoke as * slaves must regard their own masters i to be worthy of all respect, so that God’s name j and His teaching will not be blasphemed.

5) KJV 1900:

Let as many aservants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that bthe name of God and chis ddoctrine be not eblasphemed.

6) LEB:
All those who are under the yoke as slaves must regard their own masters as worthy of all honor, lest the name of God and the teaching be slandered.

7) NIV:
All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect,p so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered

8) NET:
Those who are under the yoke as slaves1 must regard their own masters as deserving of full respect. This will prevent2 the name of God and Christian teaching3 from being discredited

9) GOD'S WORD Translation:
All slaves who believe must give complete respect to their own masters. In this way no one will speak evil of God’s name and what we teach.

10) The GOOD NEWS Translation:

Those who are slaves must consider their masters worthy of all respect, so that no one will speak evil of the name of God and of our teaching.

11) The Message:

Whoever is a slave must make the best of it, giving respect to his
master so that outsiders don’t blame God and our teaching for his behavior. Slaves with Christian masters all the more so—their masters are really their beloved brothers!

12) NEW CENTURY Version:

All who are slaves under a yoke should show full respect to their masters so no one will speak against God’s name and our teaching.

13) 1901 ASV:

Let as many as are servants under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor, that the name of God and the doctrine be not blasphemed.

14) 1890 Barby Bible:
Let as many bondmen as are under yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and the teaching be not blasphemed.

15) Young's literal translation:

As many as are servants under a yoke, their own masters worthy of all honour let them reckon, that the name of God and the teaching may not be evil spoken of; 2and those having believing masters, let them not slight them, because they are brethren, but rather let them serve, because they are stedfast and beloved, who of the benefit are partaking.

16) NSVCE:

Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be defamed.

17) AV 1873:

Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that bthe name of God and chis ddoctrine be not eblasphemed

18) NIrV:
All who are forced to serve as slaves should consider their masters worthy of full respect. Then people will not speak evil things against God’s name and against what we teach.

19) D.R:
Whosoever are servants under the yoke, let them count their masters worthy of all honour; lest the name of the Lord and his doctrine be blasphemed.

20) (Spanish version, Google translator):

All who are still slaves must consider their masters worthy of full respect; so they avoid to speak ill of God's name and our teaching.


21) (Latin version, Google translator):


For as many as are servants under a yoke, their own masters worthy of all honor, that the name of the Lord and his doctrine be not blasphemed. 2 And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. Teach and exhort.

22) (Greek version, Google translator):
Those eisin under yoke slaves themselves despots any price worthy igeisthosan, lest the name of God and teaching vlasfimitai. 2 And the faith having despot non katafroneitosan that Sister eisin; but rather doulefetosan that faithful and dear eisin the beneficence perceived.

23) (French version, Google translator):
All those who live under the stress of slavery regard their masters worthy of full respect, so that the name of God and his doctrine be not defamed. 2Quant those who have believing masters, they should not despise the pretext that they are brothers, but serve all the better that they are believers and beloved ones who benefit from their services. These things teach and exhort.

24) (Russian version, Google translator):
Slaves under the yoke are, count their own masters worthy of all honor, that not blasphemed the name of God and his doctrine.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jan, 2015 12:02 pm
@oristarA,
Well, obviously your knowledge of foreign languages and the meaning of foreign words in ancient times is by far better than mine.
Thank you.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jan, 2015 01:20 pm
The earliest reference to this that I see in the Bible seems to be in Leviticus.

Here is what the god of the Bible had to say on the subject:

"Slaves, male and female, you may indeed possess, provided you BUY them from among the neighboring nations. You may also BUY them from among the aliens who reside with you and from their children who are born and reared in your land. Such slaves YOU MAY OWN AS CHATTELS, and leave to your sons as their hereditary property, MAKING THEM PERPETUAL SLAVES. But you shall not lord it harshly over any of the Israelites, your kinsmen."
Leviticus 25:44ff


Sounds a lot more like "slaves" the way we think of "slaves"...than it does of "servants."

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jan, 2015 02:26 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Sounds a lot more like "slaves" the way we think of "slaves"...than it does of "servants."

Without any doubts.
Any servant around 100 (and up to the Middle Ages) was what we call today a 'slave'.
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