7
   

Is there a possible universe where the laws of logic and math are different from what we know?

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2015 02:30 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Well you can't say I didn't try.


I'm not sure of what you were "trying" to do, Izzy...other than to call me a fool in a backdoor way.

I might come closer to understanding if you had answered the questions I asked and alluded to in my first three sentences.
fresco
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2015 03:06 pm
@izzythepush,
Yes a good try!

I usually resist Frank's wallowing in in his lack of reading and incessant vacuous simplistic droning about "guessing" which he uses as an excuse for his ignorance. But just occasionally such self valedictory bleating deserves a good slap in the mouth, especially when he appears to have nothing better to do in his dotage than target his drivel at me.

Of course Wittgenstein et al can be hard going, but the irony is that W promotes "normal language" and denigrates so-called philosophical problems, such those concerning "reality", as "pseudo-problems" resulting from "language on holiday". He was in essence an anti-philosopher ...something of the layman's champion ...a potential ally to the "Franks" of this world rather than an antagonist !


0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2015 03:17 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I'm not interested in answering your questions, and I'm not reading up for you. Fresco has answered your questions but you don't get it. I don't get it either, but I've not really tried to get it, and I'm not that bothered about not getting it.

You refuse to admit you don't get it, but still insist you're right.
fresco
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2015 03:28 pm
@izzythepush,
Smile
There's nothing much to "get" except for the view that language (and mathematics) does not so much "represent reality" as "construct reality". The reasons for that (prevalent view) are of course well argued in the extensive literature in which Wittgenstein was a key player, since he himself rejected his own earlier acclaimed attempt at representationalism (in the Tractatus).
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2015 03:30 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I'm really not trying to be insulting or condescending here Frank, but conversations with you about things like this tend to be circular, and once one has done a couple of circuits it seems a bit much.

Here's an example of reality using just light as an example. You're standing in the woods on a beautiful sunny day with a dog and an alien. You're all looking out at nature in all it's verdant finery. The dog sees grey, you see colour, the alien sees infra red and ultra violet as well as your spectrum. You all see 3 different things, but it's all reality. You can argue there's a greater reality, but all that means is there's 4 realities instead of 3.

Reality is a concept brought about by people, it's not some fixed property of nature. Now if you refuse to accept that, or even to put your preconceptions to one side, you're going to just go round and round in circles. Don't be upset that nobody else wants to ride the Merry-Go-Round with you.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2015 03:31 pm
@fresco,
I think I get some of that.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2015 03:33 pm
There ya go, Izzy. You've gained an ally. The great Fresco who is wrapped in the cocoon of a belief system he cannot break out from.

Go hold hands!
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2015 03:48 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Do you feel better now you've made a slightly homophobic jeer? Does it feel as good as when you ridiculed the appearance of Georg Simon Ohm?

Would you like to reminisce about your high school football career, and have a go at Poindexters and nerds?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2015 04:34 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Do you feel better now you've made a slightly homophobic jeer?


Sorry you took that as homophobic...but the fact that you did probably says more about you than me.

It certainly was not intended that way...although I will acknowledge that it could be misinterpreted. My steady stance against homophobic positions should have told you it was not intended that way.



Quote:
Does it feel as good as when you ridiculed the appearance of Georg Simon Ohm?


Well, I did not ridicule the appearance of Ohm...but I did ridicule someone using that particular picture as an avatar.

And that made me feel great...although I gotta say that I feel great most of the time.



Quote:
Would you like to reminisce about your high school football career, and have a go at Poindexters and nerds?


Nope. How about you?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2015 04:36 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I did get a laugh out of you saying you got of that to Fresco. You might make him angry saying that. It appears that the last thing he wants to do...is to be understood. Mostly, he just wants to promote his self image.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2015 04:50 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I'm sure if you thought either fresco or myself were gay you would not use a homophobic jeer. You were comfortable doing it because you think we're both straight. Your attitude towards homophobia notwithstanding.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2015 05:22 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Why would you think that a questioner of "self" would need to promote his "self image" ? You demonstrate a classic Freudian example of "projection" of your concerns about your own self-image. Similarly your attempts to maintain your so called "agnosticism" in the face of your tendencies to "absolutism" result in Freudian projection of accusations of "belief system" and "religion" in others.


izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2015 05:31 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Well, I did not ridicule the appearance of Ohm


You did, and you apologised for it afterwards. You know that's what happened. As you're snowbound with nothing else to do, you can ferret it out if you want to, but you won't, because you and I both know you did ridicule the appearance of Ohm.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2015 05:36 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

I'm sure if you thought either fresco or myself were gay you would not use a homophobic jeer. You were comfortable doing it because you think we're both straight. Your attitude towards homophobia notwithstanding.


Whatever.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2015 05:38 pm
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

Why would you think that a questioner of "self" would need to promote his "self image" ? You demonstrate a classic Freudian example of "projection" of your concerns about your own self-image. Similarly your attempts to maintain your so called "agnosticism" in the face of your tendencies to "absolutism" result in Freudian projection of accusations of "belief system" and "religion" in others.





Oh get off it, Fresco.

You are a self-promoter...and obviously a guy who thinks that if you make your comments cumbersome and difficult enough...people will think you are a genius.

I think you are a guy who is trying to self-promote...and I think some of your comments are laughable.


0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2015 06:22 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Nobody needs a link for this - except you.

So, in your view of the world, when somebody says, "According to some theorists," it's improper to ask, "what theorists?"
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2015 07:02 pm
@Brandon9000,
Not even in the same ball park.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2015 07:57 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Not even in the same ball park.

Please explain your objection to my rather normal request for clarification of the reference to "some theorists." Superficially it looks like a childish insult not really motivated by anything I said.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2015 08:28 pm
@Brandon9000,
Not wasting my time trying to explain the simplest of concepts to an idiot like you.
Brandon9000
 
  4  
Reply Tue 27 Jan, 2015 11:04 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Not wasting my time trying to explain the simplest of concepts to an idiot like you.

So, you insult my completely normal and polite request for a link, refuse to explain any of your reasoning, and engage in childish name calling in every post. Since I arrived on this board many years ago, I have tried never to talk about the poster but only about his posts, and I think I've pretty much succeeded, but it's fair to say that you satisfy the definition of a troll.
 

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