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Is changing an iconic character's race or gender a good or bad thing?

 
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Aug, 2015 03:23 pm
@izzythepush,
In actual Greek lore he was called Ἡρακλῆς - 'Heracles' is a transliteration. According to Merriam-Webster the first known use of the spelling 'Heracles' was in 1846.

Hercules is a much earlier transliteration (known in ancient Rome).
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2016 10:03 am
Personally, I don't mind any fictional revisionism. Change the race and gender of a given character. It can add originality and complexity to a stale character or work of fiction.

Ghost in the Shell Publisher 'Never Imagined' a Japanese Actress in the Lead Role

This is interesting. The country of Japan? Some grumbling but mostly? They don't care. The manga author's notes? A little ambivalent but still doesn't outwardly oppose a western actor? The publisher of said manga? Nope. No problem with a Caucasian actress. The anime movie and television series? Major Motoko Kusanagi is a cyborg that doesn't look explicitly Japanese. Emphasis on the fact... SHE'S A FULL BODY CYBORG. A work of fiction.
The people complaining about the casting? They're making a Olympus Mons, Mars sized mountain out of an empty lifeless anthill.


People are complaining that African-American Zoe Saldana playing the jazz legend, Nina Simone isn't BLACK enough.

This type of liberal nitpicking is giving too much fuel to racist Drumpf supporters and their ilk. Some battles need not be fought tooth and nail.
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2016 11:51 am
@tsarstepan,
tsarstepan wrote:

People are complaining that African-American Zoe Saldana playing the jazz legend, Nina Simone isn't BLACK enough.

From what I read about this, Simone's dark coloring had a significant impact on her life and she experienced significant discrimination because of it so replacing her with a fair skinned actress removed an important part of the story.
snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2016 12:00 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

tsarstepan wrote:

People are complaining that African-American Zoe Saldana playing the jazz legend, Nina Simone isn't BLACK enough.

From what I read about this, Simone's dark coloring had a significant impact on her life and she experienced significant discrimination because of it so replacing her with a fair skinned actress removed an important part of the story.

Exactly right. The dark hue of Simone's skin was part of her story. In a significant way, if a lighter skinned actress is used really isn't the story of Nina Simone's anymore.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2016 12:19 pm
@engineer,
I see your point, engineer. I don't know Nina Simone's history but can easily believe darker skin matters, more or slightly less, in many ways including career, somewhat depending on where you are.

I live in a New Mexico city and rarely see any blacks at all. This is strange to me, and makes me question why the hell I moved here (answer: money complexities and that I had friends here.) Same with where I lived in northern California. My relative, whose mother was African from Africa (I'm vague on purpose), father northern european in heritage, was the last thing from scary in my Los Angeles area. Friends with their neighbors, and so on, in a middling area, mix of gang scenes, and mixed economic 'class'. Redlining was familiar. We had trouble getting a loan company even to respond, back in '76. Nods to AllState, or whatever that name is.
Now it's all super hot real estate. I and my ex are both sad, we miss the old place. Not entirely, lives move on, but miss it as it was. I've a lot of photos, if I would ever get my act in gear and post them.

As I've mentioned before, but, hey, she got treated as a whore by a trucker when visiting me in the north, when she was 13 or 14. I wasn't with her (walking the dog, for gawd's sakes, a doberman, not a chihuahua) but was plotzed. Yes, she dressed normal nicely.

Now I'll go look up more on Nina Simone (I can still hear 'first time ever I saw your face' way down in my brain cells/heart).


Back to the question, I get Tsar's take on play. But, they missed a bet. A closer reality could have been seriously good. I think Nina should have been portrayed more straightforwardly. Let me guess, there aren't all that many dark skinned actresses available at casting time - which points to the "system".
snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2016 12:38 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:

I see your point, engineer. I don't know Nina Simone's history but can easily believe darker skin matters, more or less, in many ways including career, somewhat depending on where you are.

I live in a New Mexico city and rarely see any blacks at all. This is strange to me, and makes me question why the hell I moved here (answer: money complexities and that I had friends here.) Same with where I lived in northern California. My relative, whose mother was African from Africa (I'm vague on purpose), father northern european in heritage, was the last thing from scary in my Los Angeles area. Friends with their neighbors, and so on, in a middling area, mix of gang scenes, and mixed economic 'class'. Redlining was familiar. We had trouble getting a loan company even to respond, back in '76.
Now it's all super hot real estate. Me and my ex are both sad, we miss the old place.

She got treated as a whore by a trucker when visiting me in the north, when she was 13 or 14. I wasn't with her (walking the dog, for gawd's sakes) but was plotzed. Yes, she dressed normal nicely.

Now I'll go look up more on Nina Simone (I can still hear 'first time ever I saw your face' way down in my brain cells.)

Not sure Simone ever sang that. Maybe you're thinking about Roberta Flack.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2016 12:53 pm
@snood,
Nuts, I'm off to review.

0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 May, 2016 11:09 am
Stephen Colbert Takes On Marvel Cinematic Universe's "Sausage Fest"
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2016 10:38 am
@tsarstepan,
0 Replies
 
Thomas33
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2016 11:33 am
It can be both, although I'm lately of the inclined opinion it's just bad. Just create a new character, and a new franchise or story.

Something like Iron Man is acceptable, because the Iron man tech is universal, but Spider-Man needs to be Peter Parker, because Spider-Man is circumstantial.

The loop of nature can make this a convoluted debate: what if the Iron Man tech is universal, but Tony Stark is what makes Iron Man cool.
tsarstepan
 
  2  
Reply Fri 31 Mar, 2017 01:47 pm
@Thomas33,
But you're glossing over Miles Morales. I was hoping that Donald Glover will don that persona and Spidey suit.

Tonight, I will be watching Ghost in the Shell, a Hollywood live action blockbuster of Japanese anime (which is in the top five of my all time favorite movies).

The controversy here is regarding the whitewashing of the lead protagonist, Major Motoko Kusanagi, in the casting of Scarlett Johansson. It's kind of a muddled greyish controversy if you know the anime and the design of the character where she isn't depicted as Asian in the film and television.

Even the director of the films, Mamoru Oshii, who is Japanese, doesn't see the problem of the recent nonAsian casting.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Mar, 2017 02:43 pm
Kinda on topic, and not...

I recently finished Netflix's "Travelers"

What I really liked is that the gender of any one particular Traveler on the team is not the one she/he is in their own time.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Mar, 2017 02:48 pm
@tsarstepan,
Quote:
Tonight, I will be watching Ghost in the Shell, a Hollywood live action blockbuster of Japanese anime (which is in the top five of my all time favorite movies).

I will be seeing it tomorrow with my 17 yr son. He hasn't seen the original anime and won't until after the movie. This is also in my top 5 for anime movies along with Akira and a couple of others.

Quote:
The controversy here is regarding the whitewashing of the lead protagonist, Major Motoko Kusanagi, in the casting of Scarlett Johansson. It's kind of a muddled greyish controversy if you know the anime and the design of the character where she isn't depicted as Asian in the film and television.

Even the director of the films, Mamoru Oshii, who is Japanese, doesn't see the problem of the recent nonAsian casting.

Agreed on all points.
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Apr, 2017 07:52 pm
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Apr, 2017 08:07 pm
@tsarstepan,
tsarstepan wrote:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONKxT98d1Xs[/youtube]


The anime is attempting to make her and her partner western European as well as the bad guys. I don't see it as a problem at all. I think Scarlett does a good job taking up her story.
0 Replies
 
Kolyo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Apr, 2017 01:27 am
@tsarstepan,
Colbert needs to check out Marvel's Agents of Shield.

izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Apr, 2017 04:53 am
@Kolyo,
I think I managed to make it as far as season 2 before I couldn't be arsed with it any more.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Apr, 2017 08:15 am
@tsarstepan,
With Globalization the cultural mix Katamari is unavoidable.
...one might as well get used to it.
0 Replies
 
Kolyo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Apr, 2017 09:19 am
@izzythepush,
Well, whether one likes the actual show or not, it's certainly no "sausage-fest", which was Colbert's complaint about Marvel.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Apr, 2017 09:32 am
@Kolyo,
Was it? All the female characters are a bit male fantasy though. It's not exactly a beacon of equality. There are short chubby males in some warehouse in the North Pole, but no female equivalents.
 

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