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How can I be respected by others if I am Israeli and Israel has a negative image ?

 
 
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2014 02:47 am
Unlike the UK , France , Germany, Australia , Canada and many other countries, Israel is illegally occupying another people , commits war crimes and human rights violations and people protest its policies. So how can I as an Israeli be respected and admired ?

Hugh Jackman is admired because Australia is a good country.
Avril Lavigne is admired because Canada is a good country .
People love the Beatles , Ed Sheeran , One Direction , and many other British bands because England is an awesome country .
People love Heidi Klum and Claudia Schiffer because Germany is a cool country.
People love PSY and other K-Pop stars because they are Koreans and South Korea is a nice place.

People can never respect and love an Israeli the same way these people are loved. I don't know of any Israeli who is loved like they are. Especially not in the ultra-judgmental USA where a man's country is the man's image and if you are British then people love you , you are great , you are an awesome human being , but if you are an Israeli , you are an Apartheid state , you are genocidal , you oppress Palestinians , you are a war crimes committer and a human rights violator . This is your image in the eyes of the ultra-judgmental Americans. They are as tolerant and accepting as their Canadian neighbors who largely don't care what kind of injustices your country commits . They are simple people who just live their lives peacefully without caring what crimes Israel\Russia\Iran\China or any other nation committed . They simply are apathetic .
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2014 03:00 am
@Israeliselfhater,
Nationalistic prejudice can be both positive and negative. For example, "the British" might be admired for their democratic institutions, but deplored for their colonial history. No doubt the word "Israeli" can also incur both positive and negative connotations depending on the agenda of the prejudice holder.
Your username is indicative of such simplistic prejudice. Such ephemeral parochialism tends to be assigned to the waste bin of history in the long run.
contrex
 
  3  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2014 03:01 am
Quote:
Hugh Jackman is admired because Australia is a good country.
Avril Lavigne is admired because Canada is a good country .
People love the Beatles , Ed Sheeran , One Direction , and many other British bands because England is an awesome country .
People love Heidi Klum and Claudia Schiffer because Germany is a cool country.
People love PSY and other K-Pop stars because they are Koreans and South Korea is a nice place.


These people's countries are irrelevant. They are admired because they are good. You are talking crazy nonsense.
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contrex
 
  3  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2014 03:26 am
@fresco,
fresco wrote:
"the British" might be admired for their democratic institutions, but deplored for their colonial history.

There are, and always have been, plenty of "Brits" who deplored that nation-state's colonial (and other) policies, both at the time and in retrospect. Many English Scots, Welsh and Irish people have less than admiring views of the development of that state. There are plenty of historians who argue for a different narrative from the kings-and-battles type.
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oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2014 04:24 am
@Israeliselfhater,
Israeliselfhater wrote:
Unlike the UK, France, Germany, Australia, Canada and many other countries, Israel is illegally occupying another people, commits war crimes and human rights violations

Israel does nothing of the sort.


Israeliselfhater wrote:
and people protest its policies.

Rather, anti-Semites falsely accuse Israel of untrue charges.


Israeliselfhater wrote:
So how can I as an Israeli be respected and admired?

Stop worrying about what anti-Semites think.

Anti-Semites are scum and their views do not count.
fresco
 
  4  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2014 05:21 am
@oralloy,
Don't be stupid. The fact that anti-semites cash in on Israel's controversial policies is no different to pro-semites denial of such controversy. Polarisation will solve nothing.
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2014 07:19 am
People stereotype and generalize for a few reasons, in my experience:
a) They're too lazy to discern individuals when the quick-and-easy solution is available.
b) They lack enough information to do so.
c) They fall prey to selection bias because they prefer to feel superior and don't care about the facts.
d) They're just thoughtlessly parroting the things people around them say.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2014 12:22 pm
@fresco,
fresco wrote:
Don't be stupid.

I do not agree that opposing anti-Semitism is stupid. But in any case, I am proud that I do it, and will not stop.


fresco wrote:
The fact that anti-semites cash in on Israel's controversial policies

That isn't a fact. Israel is not engaging in "controversial policies". Rather, Israel is being falsely accused of "controversial policies" by anti-Semites.

It's the whole blood libel thing all over again, just thinly disguised by directing it at the state of Israel instead of at Jews.


fresco wrote:
is no different to pro-semites denial of such controversy.

I find a considerable difference between "anti-Semites falsely accusing Israel of horrible crimes" and "decent people condemning anti-Semites for being evil scumbags".

Your use of the term pro-Semite is interesting. I admit that I do like Israel. However, I rather like to think that the reason that I condemn anti-Semitism is simply because I'm a decent human being.


fresco wrote:
Polarisation will solve nothing.

When dealing with anti-Semites, polarization is inevitable. Anti-Semites are pure evil, and us good people feel a strong urge to make a stand against pure evil whenever we cross paths with it.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2014 12:22 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
People stereotype and generalize for a few reasons, in my experience:
a) They're too lazy to discern individuals when the quick-and-easy solution is available.
b) They lack enough information to do so.
c) They fall prey to selection bias because they prefer to feel superior and don't care about the facts.
d) They're just thoughtlessly parroting the things people around them say.

Stereotyping is wired into our DNA. It used to be quite useful when tribes were no larger than 30 people.

Stereotypes used to allow quick and accurate assessments like: "these guys are tough and aggressive, but they will leave you alone as long as you leave them alone" or "run for your life if you see even a hint that these guys are around" or "these guys are decent folk who will cooperate to help bring down a large animal and then are happy to share it equitably".

But now that we have larger populations with an even mix of all personality types, stereotyping is no longer an accurate way of predicting how a group will act.
fresco
 
  5  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2014 01:28 pm
@oralloy,
It is the height of stupidity to discount all criticism of Israel as "anti-semitic". It merely feeds the same propaganda machine of anti-semites which accuses Jews of "overplaying the holocaust card".
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2014 04:21 pm
@fresco,
fresco wrote:
It is the height of stupidity to discount all criticism of Israel as "anti-semitic".

I do not agree that standing firm against anti-Semitic false accusations is stupid. I am proud that I do it, and I do not intend to stop.


fresco wrote:
It merely feeds the same propaganda machine of anti-semites which accuses Jews of "overplaying the holocaust card".

Anti-Semites spout all kinds of horrible outrages.

That only thing you can do about it is publicly denounce their anti-Semitism and then discount it as invalid.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2014 05:32 pm
Do like us Americans do and get a Canadian flag patch to wear.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2014 06:47 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

FBM wrote:
People stereotype and generalize for a few reasons, in my experience:
a) They're too lazy to discern individuals when the quick-and-easy solution is available.
b) They lack enough information to do so.
c) They fall prey to selection bias because they prefer to feel superior and don't care about the facts.
d) They're just thoughtlessly parroting the things people around them say.

Stereotyping is wired into our DNA. It used to be quite useful when tribes were no larger than 30 people.


I wasn't aware that the stereotyping gene had been found. Was that the Human Genome Project? [Edit: Wait. I think you were just using a turn of phrase there. Nvm.]

Quote:
Stereotypes used to allow quick and accurate assessments like: "these guys are tough and aggressive, but they will leave you alone as long as you leave them alone" or "run for your life if you see even a hint that these guys are around" or "these guys are decent folk who will cooperate to help bring down a large animal and then are happy to share it equitably".

But now that we have larger populations with an even mix of all personality types, stereotyping is no longer an accurate way of predicting how a group will act.


Yup. It's a useful heuristic in certain situations, but we can do better in everyday life.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Fri 26 Dec, 2014 12:27 am
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
I wasn't aware that the stereotyping gene had been found. Was that the Human Genome Project? [Edit: Wait. I think you were just using a turn of phrase there. Nvm.]

Sort of in between. They haven't found a stereotyping gene (that I've heard of at least), but I do mean that natural selection has resulted in this becoming an ingrained human behavior.

It might be the result of interactions between many genes though, as opposed to the result of the presence of a single gene.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Dec, 2014 12:32 am
@oralloy,
Could be. That would be a good one for the evolutionary psychologists, I think.
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Dec, 2014 02:18 am
@oralloy,
Tribalism (aka prejudice with respect to in-group/out-group stereotypes) seems to be a behavior we have in common with other primates. Humans, with their enhanced communication skills, tend to amplify and reify that trait through their social institutions of religion and nationalism. Such adages as "my country right or wrong" , "charity begins at home", and "death to the infidel" are lasting manifestations of our tribalism. Calling such group think "evil" is merely displaying ignorance of the social mechanisms which impinge on the psychology of humans.


0 Replies
 
magnocrat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2015 03:41 am
Don't worry about your label. I'm labelled an Englishman along with forty million other humans of all shapes and sizes and opinions. There is no standard Englishman just a huge variation of nebulous ideas as to what an Englishman is.
Be yourself but don't forget the golden rule ' do unto others as you would be done by'
0 Replies
 
 

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