@Olivier5,
I have no views about what feminism "is" currently because I'm not particularly interested, and, since you've already admitted you are not knowledgeable regarding current feminist thinking or issues, I fail to see why you are so hung up on feminism either. And your conception of what feminists are like seems both extremely dated and stereotyped.
Feminism was never about getting grown men to change, it was about raising awareness and working to remove societal barriers that prevented women from gaining full equality--socially, politically, and economically. It never involved getting men to adhere to feminism, or women to adhere to feminism, because there is no one version of feminist ideology or thought, it was about identifying the societal factors, and attitudes, that limited the development of women's potential and their contributions to society. It was about empowering women to have more control over their lives. And it was always about talking with, and working with, men in a collaborative manner, if shared goals were involved.
Feminism, as social activism, is essentially no different than advocacy groups for the black community or the gay community--which also work to raise awareness of issues, or discriminatory attitudes, that adversely affect their groups--and when their issues and goals resonate with others, outside of their particular groups, they will receive support from these individuals. Plenty of white people just marched in NYC to protest the killing of an unarmed black man by the police, and similar killings of unarmed black men by police all over the country, in rallies which were black organized. Plenty of straight people advocate strongly for the legalization of gay marriage and the end to all forms of discrimination against gays and lesbians. And plenty of men support the issues and concerns identified by, not just feminists, but women in general.
I'm not sure you understand or differentiate between feminism and simply women's views and perspectives--they are not synonymous. What feminists accomplished was to help make women, as a group, more assertive, so they began speaking up and speaking out more on societal issues of concern to women. Once that starts to happen, and men start listening, seriously listening, and they begin to address those concerns too, you don't need feminism as an advocacy group any more, you can just let women speak for themselves, and advocate for themselves, and organize for themselves, without a defined activist movement called feminism. And that's where I think we are now, or at least we're clearly moving in that direction, which is why I think, in the U.S., feminism is becoming obsolete and unnecessary, and that's fine, it's a natural progression. Once the issues are identified, it's up to the larger society to work on solving them.
I want women to be heard and listened to--otherwise you cannot understand the female perspective on issues based on their life experiences as women. And I don't find you to be a particularly good listener to even the women in this thread. You may respond, to them or to me, but I don't think you really
hear what was said, or consider it.
For instance, you keep asserting that patriarchy doesn't exist, you called it tilting at windmills, and you dismiss it as some sort of feminist delusion, but ehBeth, osso, and I, all disagreed with you. Did that cause you to consider you might be wrong? No, you went right on making the same assertion as though you didn't hear us. That's not just a difference of opinion, it's a blind spot you might have as a man because patriarchy doesn't affect you, it privileges you, or it certainly doesn't affect you in the way it would if you were a woman.
And your views about how feminism should change it's image, or your How To of Feminism, and the causes you think N.O.W. should address itself to, are examples of a man telling women how they should be thinking and acting--and what could be more patriarchal than that.
Forget about feminism, Oliver, you really don't seem to understand it anyway, and just start listening to women,
really listening, if you want to understand where their heads are at. I think you might have lots of male blind spots you aren't even aware of.
