The New Defeatism

Quote:

We are becoming a crazed culture of cheap criticism and pious moralizing, and in our self-absorption may well lose what we inherited from a better generation. Our groaning and hissing elite indulges itself, while better but forgotten folks risk their lives on our behalf in pretty horrible places.

This paragraph, embedded in this article, from this source...

Oh the Irony!

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It's impossible to not be partisan about a war created for bogus purposes, costing so many lives and stretching the military and the national budget so. The so-called better generation had a different set of choices and cannot be held over the present generation.

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The WWII generation had a lot of things we don't have in this day and age.

- People who actually wanted to be liberated.
- A real leader in the White House.
- A military that sent enough enought troops and resources.
- A leadership that asked the American public to make sacrafices instead of bribing them with tax cuts.
- An enemy that was real threat to world peace.
- A just cause.

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ebrown_p wrote:

Quote:

We are becoming a crazed culture of cheap criticism and pious moralizing, and in our self-absorption may well lose what we inherited from a better generation. Our groaning and hissing elite indulges itself, while better but forgotten folks risk their lives on our behalf in pretty horrible places.

This paragraph, embedded in this article, from this source...

Oh the Irony!

The author was talking about Ted Kennedy, the grand KKK wizard Robert Byrd, Pelosi and ilk Very Happy

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perception wrote:

ebrown_p wrote:
Quote:

We are becoming a crazed culture of cheap criticism and pious moralizing, and in our self-absorption may well lose what we inherited from a better generation. Our groaning and hissing elite indulges itself, while better but forgotten folks risk their lives on our behalf in pretty horrible places.

This paragraph, embedded in this article, from this source...

Oh the Irony!

The author was talking about Ted Kennedy, the grand KKK wizard Robert Byrd, Pelosi and ilk

Factually...

.. the author was engaging in cheap criticism and pious moralizing about Ted Kennedy, Robert Byrd, Pelosi and ilk and in his self-absorbtion he may well lose what we inherited from a better generation.

At least he understands the self-indulgence of his groaning and hissing...

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perc

Let's not forget that immediately following 9-11, the President asked US citizens to buck up, put their shoulders to the wheel, and head out to do some shopping. Very Churchillian, that.

There's perhaps a move afoot to analogize Bush and Iraq to World War II. Bush himself tried that the other day, and this piece makes the same sort of argument...Bush and the pro-war crowd are the real men in this otherwise tawdry and cowardly era.

The differences between these two wars are so much more significant than the few similarities that the argument is laughable. Sorry, pal.

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ho hum.....I'm tired of re runs....

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Quote:

The WWII generation had a lot of things we don't have in this day and age.

- People who actually wanted to be liberated.
- A real leader in the White House.
- A military that sent enough enought troops and resources.
- A leadership that asked the American public to make sacrafices instead of bribing them with tax cuts.
- An enemy that was real threat to world peace.
- A just cause.

Dig into the archives of the New York Times, Life Magazine, Look Magazine, Readers' Digest, etc. etc. etc. throughout the 1940's. You will find article after article after article stating the shortage of troops, ammunition, resources, supply lines, etc. etc. etc., as well as disastrous military decisions and choices that went very very wrong. You had a president who had already put unprecedented social programs into place as fast as congress could pass them. And you had people wondering why our young men were dying overseas for an enemy they never knew.

Then during the 'occupations' of Japan and Germany, you find articles stating how much the Germans and Japanese hated us, how they didn't want us there, how they resented and resisted our efforts to 'rebuild' their countries. Five long years of occupation in both places.

And as for an enemy that was a real threat to world peace, we had no more information about Hitler than we had about Saddam Hussein or no greater consensus on whether a pre-emptive strike was warranted.

What they did have back then, however, once the gauntlet was thrown, was a nation willing to rally behind its leader and give real and moral encouragement to the troops so they could get the job done and come home. They didn't attempt to discredit the president and his authority, and they didn't demoralize the troops with protest rallies screaming how what they were doing was illegal and immoral.

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Fox

Easy girl you're confusing them with facts----as Timber would say: "those pesky facts keep getting in the way of leftist rhetoric".

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What facts are you talking about? I haven't seen any facts. Some links would go a long way to backing up these far-fetched claims that the occupations of Germany and Japan were anything like the current situation in Iraq. Let's start with these...

How many US deaths were there in the occupation of Germany and Japan after WWII?

Can you show me any article about the US soldiers sodomizing prisoners of war in Germany or Japan?

What was Saddam doing that paralleled Hitlers bombing of England and occupation of most of Europe? (How you can all D-day "pre-emptive" is a huge stretch of reason?)

We Americans supported our president in WWII because we believed he was right. That is how a democracy works. The president get's his authority from the will of the people.

To blame the American people for the failings of the current president is a slander against the American people, and Democracy as an institution.

Many of your fellow Americans are against the war in Iraq. To question our loyalty to their country, or their willingness to do what it takes to defend her simply because we disagree is offensive.

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I questioned nobody's loyalty ebrown. If you find it offensive that I think public protests encourage the enemy, put soldiers' lives at greater risk, prolong or even sidetrack the victory, I can't help that.

As for links, I don't have them but you can find the sources I quote in any large public library. Of course those who don't wish to believe they are facts will not bother to read up on it. I am of the generation that had numerous relatives who were there. I listened carefully.

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The president of today is not the president of WWII and his war is not a war of freedom and national survival. We would be remiss in our duty to the nation if we dissenters simply went away. In fact, Bush's war would be a whole lot deeper into the pits of immorality without watchdogs to call him down.

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Respectfully disagree. I fully expect, unless misguided American sentiment derails the process, we will see the beginnings of democracy and greater stablility in the Middle East as a result of our invasion of Iraq and the legacy of that effort will be favorable in future histories yet to be written.

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Respectfully, the terrorists Bush is creating with his war do not see it that way.

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ebrown_p wrote:

The WWII generation had a lot of things we don't have in this day and age.

- People who actually wanted to be liberated.
- A real leader in the White House.
- A military that sent enough enought troops and resources.
- A leadership that asked the American public to make sacrafices instead of bribing them with tax cuts.
- An enemy that was real threat to world peace.
- A just cause.

1. Most of the German people were either nazis or nazi sympathizers and the japanese citizens were fanatics as only Japanese can be----why do you think they wanted to be liberated? Both the Japanese and the Germans were more nationalistic by far than Americans.

2. Roosevelt knew the American people did not want to go to war ---- that's why he waited until we had no choice - after the Japs bombed Pearl.
It doesn't take much of a leader to rouse people after a sneak attack.
3. This one is really bull---Roosevelt allowed our military to become depleted manpower and weapons wise----is that the sign of a good leader and commander in chief. If he had built the military up after it became apparent that Hitler was for real we wouldn't have had the terrible casualties. You could consider this criminal negligence.
4. A declaration of war was finally issued which grants the president far reaching powers. I think Bush has not requested a declaration of war because he does not want to appear to need the war powers granted thusly nor the implication that goes with it. He has said time and time again that this will be a LONG war therefore people must try to live lives as normally as possible. We must be ever alert but we can't fight the war and we must maintain a strong economy. Since the economy was not broken, just badly bent, he didn't want to panic people and make the situation worse.
5. There is no doubt that WWII was a fight for survival-----When it becomes apparent even to you that there is a real connection between al Queda and Saddam you will see why it was good judgement to pre-emptively attack not to mention it is good military tactics. You lose less people that way.

6. A just war----this is a very subjective thing and is only in the eye of the beholder.

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The big mistake in all this is trying to equate a past war, with no connection to today's reality, to Iraq. That duck just don't float.

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If you go back to the media reports of the 1940's and the media reports of today, however, the similarities are amazing.

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- We are in a guerrila war against an enemy that is indistinguishable from the cvilian public.
- There are growing protests among the American public.
- There is public disagreement about the need and causes of the war.
- We have a president who is losing popularity and very well may lose an election because of the war.
- Our administration continues to paint a very rosy picture even as the public becomes more and more disillusioned.
- There are scandals involving the actions of US troops.
- "Illegal combatants" and materials are being smuggled from neighboring countries.
- The patriotism of Amerians who dissent is being questioned.

You are right, the similarities are amazing.

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