8
   

Fathers rights

 
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 02:13 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
And he doesn't want to care for the baby but wants

From his post:

"I am going to send her money every month and do whatever I can for my daughter."
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 02:25 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I think he does want to pay support, according to the original post. I'm really hoping he finds out if he ought to, because I am not at all comfortable with several of the ways she seems to want to proceed. Personally, I feel court involvement would be a good thing in this case.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 02:50 am
@roger,
Yes, he wants to send money - which the mother seems not to want to accept.

Court procedures can only be started, when he legally tries to father the child at the registry office ... and the mother/child (or the registry office) object to it.
Before that, everyone can speculate a lot about the "ifs", "whens", "whats" ...
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 03:29 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Yes, he wants to send money - which the mother seems not to want to accept.


That's my understanding of their relative positions - now. Much can change in the next eighteen or twenty some years.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 06:22 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
And I have sincere doubts that an expert in American citizenship issues knows more about German family law than people here.


Once more German family laws have almost nothing to do with the rights of the child on reaching 18 years of age to be able to claim American Citizenship if she would care to do so by way of her American father.

That right is govern by American laws not German laws and something her father had express an interest in doing.

As I said he does need to see an expert American lawyer over the below issues

Quote:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthright_citizenship_in_the_United_States#Children_born_overseas_out_of_wedlock

Children born overseas out of wedlock[edit]
There is an asymmetry in the way citizenship status of children born overseas to unmarried parents, only one of whom is a U.S. citizen, is handled.

Title 8 U.S.C. § 1409 paragraph (c) provides that children born abroad after December 24, 1952 to unmarried American mothers are U.S. citizens, as long as the mother has lived in the U.S. for a continuous period of at least one year at any time prior to the birth.

8 U.S.C. § 1409 paragraph (a) provides that children born to American fathers unmarried to the children's non-American mothers are considered U.S. citizens only if the father meets the "physical presence" conditions described above, and the father takes several actions:

Unless deceased, has agreed to provide financial support to the child until he reaches 18,
Establish paternity by clear and convincing evidence and, while the person is under the age of 18 years
the person is legitimated under the law of the person’s residence or domicile,
the father acknowledges paternity of the person in writing under oath, or
the paternity of the person is established by adjudication of a competent court.
8 U.S.C. § 1409 paragraph (a) provides that acknowledgment of paternity can be shown by acknowledging paternity under oath and in writing; having the issue adjudicated by a court; or having the child otherwise "legitimated" by law.
Because of this rule, unusual cases have arisen whereby children have been fathered by American men overseas from non-American women, brought back to the United States as babies without the mother, raised by the American father in the United States, and later held to be deportable as non-citizens in their 20s.[11][12] The final element has taken an especially significant importance in these circumstances, as once the child has reached 18, the father is forever unable to establish paternity to deem his child a citizen.[13]

This distinction between unwed American fathers and American mothers was constructed and reaffirmed by Congress out of concern that a flood of illegitimate Korean and Vietnamese children would later claim American citizenship as a result of their parentage by American servicemen overseas fighting wars in their countries.[14] In many cases, American servicemen passing through in wartime may not have even learned they had fathered a child.[14] In 2001, the Supreme Court, by 5–4 majority in Nguyen v. INS, first established the constitutionality of this gender distinction.[11][12]
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 06:28 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Once more German family laws have almost nothing to do with the rights of the child on reaching 18 years of age to be able to claim American Citizenship if she would care to do so by way of her American father.
[...]
That right is govern by American laws not German laws and something her father had express an interest in doing.
I don't know.
Here, a father is registered at the registry office/birth certificate. It has no effect, when he tells it on e.g. A2K or his mother doesn't doesn't tell it there.

But I am 100% sure that a child must have a legal father here to get his nationality. And children (or the legal guardian of a child, mother or father) can decide about the nationality from birth onwards = the moment, the child is registered.

I have no doubts that other countries have different laws. But since the child is born here, the mother is German, the child is German, both live here ...

American lawyers acting here in Germany must be represented by either a German lawyer or have to be registered as lawyer here.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 06:37 am
@Walter Hinteler,
What I really don't get:
- this dual-citizenship is the easiest thing, done within days (if the consulate/consulate department of the embassy works fast. There are no difficulties from any German side,
- but he isn't registered as father, that should be the first step.

Or, if he is, there are only perosnal problems between him and the mother (money). And the child's last name (which the mother could change, though. But then, it has to go the court.).
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 06:51 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
But since the child is born here, the mother is German, the child is German, both live here ...


Once more I am talking about protecting the rights of the child to decide for herself at some future date to be able to claim American citizenship by way of her father and if she does so American laws not German laws would apply.

Yes her custody and others such decisions is now in the hands of the German courts and likely to remain so until she reach adulthood under American laws at which point the now adult child could ask for and received an American passport and be consider an American citizen assuming her father take the needed steps before she reach the age of 18 and that right is independent of German laws.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 06:52 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
What I really don't get:
- this dual-citizenship is the easiest thing, done within days (if the consulate/consulate department of the embassy works fast. There are no difficulties from any German side,

BillRM's point is that, unless this guy takes certain steps in the US in order to comply with US law, there will be difficulties from the US side, at least when it comes to offers of US citizenship.

He is not suggesting that there is no need to comply with German law. He is just saying that if dual citizenship is to be achieved, the guy will also need to comply with US law.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 07:04 am
@oralloy,
But that can be done without him being officially and legally the father in the USA?

Would have rather no effect at all here.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 07:24 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Once more I am talking about protecting the rights of the child to decide for herself at some future date to be able to claim American citizenship by way of her father and if she does so American laws not German laws would apply.
And again: dual citizenship is no problem here. But there must be a reason, e.g. an official and legal father. (The child can get it from any moment onwards afterwards - like done in most other similar cases.)
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 07:27 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
But that can be done without him being officially and legally the father in the USA?
Would have rather no effect at all here.

This guy and his daughter would be best served by fully complying with the laws of both countries. This should be achievable, as I do not think any of the laws conflict with each other.

A number of people here have already suggested that he acquire a lawyer who is competent in the laws of both countries, in order that he ensure that he has fully complied with all necessary laws.

That is good advice I think.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 07:34 am
@oralloy,
I don't think that there wiil be (and are) any legal problems ... if there is a father named officially.
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 01:14 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter, it works differently here. This has nothing to do with the fact that the mother and child are German. If an American agrees without evidence that he is this child's father and voluntarily begins sending support, the German mother can sue from Germany for additional support, inheritance rights and any other thing she feels her baby is entitiled to. Without DNA, the courts can and will attach his wages if she claims he is the father in American family court. Germany doesn't care if an American is sending money to a woman who will not acknowledge paternity on the child's birth certificate. This young man wants to take care of a child he believes is his. Personally, with her leaving abruptly after announcing a pregnancy and intent to have an an abortion, then suddenly showing up with a suspicious story about not notifying him until the child is three months old because of 'health concerns' smacks of fraud to me. Germany doesn't have to worry about the legality of the child's citizenship. As an American, I don't want to see a young American man being duped into supporting a child that may not exist, and is probably not his biologically.

If Germany is fine with a blank space for the paternity portion of the birth certificate, she can seek help from her Government. She waited about a year to decide to re-connect as friends, and she 'claims' she doesn't want money? Frankly, I think what she has done is very cruel, and I hope the supposed father gets solid advice.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 01:20 pm
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:
Walter, it works differently here. This has nothing to do with the fact that the mother and child are German. If an American agrees without evidence that he is this child's father and voluntarily begins sending support, the German mother can sue from Germany for additional support, inheritance rights and any other thing she feels her baby is entitiled to.
That might be so. But mother and child are in Germany. And since the mother is said to be German, the child has got the German nationality as well. And to be the legal father, you have to register as such.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 01:27 pm
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:
Personally, with her leaving abruptly after announcing a pregnancy and intent to have an an abortion, then suddenly showing up with a suspicious story about not notifying him until the child is three months old because of 'health concerns' smacks of fraud to me. Germany doesn't have to worry about the legality of the child's citizenship. As an American, I don't want to see a young American man being duped into supporting a child that may not exist, and is probably not his biologically.
I fully understand all your patriotic view of this story.
But what I know is only written in those three posts here.
I don't know the mother's view at all.

The child is a legal German national- could already have her German ID-card and German (EU) passport (If the story told here is true.)
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 01:48 pm
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:
If Germany is fine with a blank space for the paternity portion of the birth certificate, she can seek help from her Government. She waited about a year to decide to re-connect as friends, and she 'claims' she doesn't want money? Frankly, I think what she has done is very cruel, and I hope the supposed father gets solid advice.
No-one needs to tell the father's name. (The registry office will only put the father's name in their data [birth certificate] if he voluntarily accepted paternity or if this has been established by a court.)

And I don't think that she got any additional help from the youth-office (= they would pay what a non-married father had legally to pay) because in such a case, they immediately search the father to get the money back.
CalamityJane
 
  3  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 01:59 pm
@glitterbag,
glitterbag, I agree: she was dishonest and cruel towards the father. Now that the child is 3 months old she probably has remorse and does want the father involved, but as he clearly said twice - she does not want monetary support.

Unlike in the U.S., the German government provides very well for mothers. She has up to 5 years maternity leave and she has a lot of other assistance including midwives that can lend her a (much needed) hand. In addition, we don't know anything about her financial welfare and if her parents help out too.

Assuming she's out to get the American father's money, is not something you'll hear very often from German sources. He stated already that she doesn't want any money.

Plus, it's perfectly all right to be a single mother - the birth certificate will have her name listed and the father's name is blank. Same procedure as in the United States, by the way, if the mother chooses to have only her name on the birth certificate, only hers will be shown.

The best way for this father is to go to Germany, see his child and discuss the legal issues with his ex-girlfriend. If indeed he wants to be included in the birth certificate, it's the mother who has to change it. If they amicably can decide, it would be better for both of them as future co-parents.

My guess is that as a new mother, she certainly has a different outlook in life now and she probably decided that it's not fair to the child to omit the father's identity and deny him and the kid to get to know each other.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 02:00 pm
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:
Frankly, I think what she has done is very cruel, and I hope the supposed father gets solid advice.


given the really whack advice American posters are giving the father, I think she's going to regret letting him know about the child

some friend/s probably convinced her he should have a chance to get to know his child and she agreed.

after reading this thread, I'd think twice about making such a suggestion to a friend
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2014 02:03 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
To be honest: I have totally different ideas.

Here, a father has to pay. If he is unknown, the local municipality's youth department tries to get his name, address etc because they have to pay the father's part. (In Berlin, that's done by the Bezirk ["county"].)

Since the mother knows his name, it would be fraud, if she hadn't named him AND got the money.

So, either that or she really doesn't want it.
Which is as unusual as the complete story. (I do think that some [important] parts are left out.)
 

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