Are there any peaceful muslim nations?

I can be polite to muslims, but I could never love them or any other Jesus-rejecter. It works both ways, because muslims are forbidden to like "infidels"..
Koran 5.51:- "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends.."

Pleeeease High Strangeness !!! You are translating the word "Vali,ولی" to friend?!!! It is WRONG.
There is no problem in Islam to love people regardless of their religion ..
believe me! a deep concept.
Also, I don't reject Jesus. He was our greatest prophet before Muhammad.
But my problem is the concept of division in unity and unity in division.
But does it really matter? I CANNOT see it a big problem while I see them such beautiful people.

1-What does "Vali" translate to in english?
2- Jesus said he was the Son of God, do you believe him?

You're the biggest Jesus rejecter going, you've rejected everything about him save his name which you've attached to your own hate filled ideology.

Christ said Love Thy Neighbour, but you preach the exact opposite.

It means guardian or protector. I think it could mean kin too depending on context.

In average no more or no less peacefull then any other nations...
By the same token, with the weapons spree, the killings in high schools, and the street agressivness, many Europeans tend to ask if there are any peacefull murikans...yeah not fair...but they ask it frequently...

Here's a good article on gun deaths with the title changing to different countries death rates by violence.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/14/upshot/compare-these-gun-death-rates-the-us-is-in-a-different-world.html?_r=0

It is very pleasing that the most vile aspect of liberalism, their hatred of Constitutional rights, is what set them along their path to ultimate doom.

Were it not for the 2013 gun control debacle, the Democratic Party would not be on the verge of catastrophic defeat right now.

Evil carries the seeds of its own destruction.

Thank you for this. It explains how particular Muslims justify ignoring the calls the Jihad. I don’t see how it could stand up to either the action of Mohammad, nor his direct followers, but it does clarify some things, and I’m glad for it’s existence.

That said - because armed conflict is fairly ‘normal’ through human history, and with Islam in so many countries, there will be conflict within Muslims countries – add the sense of Ummah into what you have said, and then apply what you wrote, and it can create problems.


Yes, foreign policy has interfered so much in the Middle East. It formed the countries boundaries / kingdoms seen today. It established Israel & props her up. It props up dictators while talking about the glory of democracy. It removed a legitimately elected Iranian president. It invaded a country with no plan for what to do after winning. It keeps military bases in Saudi Arabia. What it did in Afghanistan the first time round, helped bread Al Qaeda. It’s prisons in Iraq enabled the networking of radicals that formed & lead IS.

There is a LOT for peoples of the Middle East to hate the west, based purely on foreign policy.

However, in terms of other claims you have made. Have a read of ‘The Islamist’ by Ed Hussein, and ‘The Radical’ by Maajid Nawz. Both were radical islamists, and both came out the other end, to found the Quilliam Foundation (and anti-radicalisation think tank, aimed not just as muslim radicalisation, but all radicalisation) . They were both part of Hizb ut Tahrir. They grew up in an era where it was Bosnia that was a driving force behind radicalisation, but they also explain why, for them, they radicalised.


Currently, in relation to this subject, the biggest agitation amongst the West, is:
- Ignorance (regarding what they are dealing with)
- The lies of politicians (it’s not of Islam – which doesn’t match what is going on in the world)
- Fear (formed from both the above two, and worry over terrorism affecting them)
- The terrorist events themselves
- The lack of visible denouncement by other Muslims (note the emphasis on visible)
- The burkha, Niquib and other similar garments of extreme difference (included because the reality is, it does cause angst, whether or not one supports or denounces that kind of response)

From the Islamic side, it's much more complex than that:
- the caliphate (for IS, Hizb and other groups trying to establish it)
- the concept of ummah (see previous comment on the Ummah)
- western foreign policy/ interference (see previous mentions)
- the concept of Jihad.
- Islams position in the world & why (The Quran states over and over again, that Muslims are winners, while unbelievers are losers)
- the hate directed at Christians, Jews, and Unbelievers in the Quran. The directions to non-integration in the Quran.
- the revealing garments of western women (other side to the Burkha)

For my part, while a thread like this may create some agitiation, it is much more important that this topic be discussed openly and honestly (rather than being brushed under the carpet). It is important that people start looking into things for themselves, gain an understanding, and come to their own conclusions. So that they don't make judgements & decisions in ignorance.

Currently, the level of ignorance in the West, is woeful.
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I know there were many other subjects in your last post. Please excuse me if I didn’t respond to them. This is a long post as is. Many I understood. Some I can see your point, even though I disagree with aspects of them.

I agree with you because most people get impressions about the Middles East and Islam from the media which most likely reflects the negatives most of the time.

And when News quote local Muslims, they usually quote the firebrands with radical ideas...because it makes better news (which as you say, gives a rather skewed view)

Many people don't realise, but TV and Paper News get their best ratings:
- creating fear / horror / other strong emotions
- by reinforcing peoples expectations (that lead to the above)
- by creating a theme (that leads to the first point)

In other words, news usually has an agenda to present articles in a light that creates the most emotion. Every part of what they say may be true, but the message you receive can be at times, almost entirely false or very skewed (because of what is left out), while creating strong emotions about your now inaccurate perceptions.

There are exceptions on radicals and violent acts in all cultures; some more or less than others. The US has more than our share.

Yes there are.

It should be noted that the Israelis have the right to live in their indigenous homeland. Islam are the wrongful invaders when it comes to Israel.

And it isn't correct to say that we prop up Israel. Israel is more than capable of surviving without our aid. They would just have to be much more proactive about smashing neighboring threats. By providing aid to Israel, we give them the strength to forego smashing their neighbors at regular intervals.



The fact that we have international relations with a dictator does not mean we are propping him up.

And the world needs to make up their minds. If they want us to oppose dictators and promote democracy, then they need to shut up and stop complaining when we invade and topple dictators like Saddam Hussein.

If they don't want us to go around overthrowing dictators, then they need to shut up and stop complaining when we accept an existing dictator as the legitimate ruler of a country.



It did not. That guy was removed by the same clerics who rule Iran today.

The US and UK went along with the coup, but those clerics were going to topple the guy with or without us.

It might also be noted that the UK had a just cause for going along with the coup. The elected guy was stealing the UK's oil resources.



Set up a democracy and go home. Seems pretty straightforward.



Only at the request of the Saudi Arabian government. Note also that those bases were removed as soon as Saddam was toppled (and the Saudis would have insisted on us staying to protect them had Saddam remained in power).



When extremists choose to become extremists, that is their own doing. We are not responsible for their choices.



Same point as above regarding extremists being responsible for their own extremism. Besides, what were we supposed to do if not imprison them? Summary executions?

Also, the primary reason for the formation of Islamic State was Assad welcoming all the terrorists into his country so he could use them to try to distract the world from the genocide that he is perpetrating against his own people.



I strenuously disagree. Islam owes us an apology for their horrible attitude towards us, and owes us profound thanks for all that we have done to help them.

Hello Oralloy...it seems you missed the whole point of the part of my post you are replying to - it is what creates angst to those living in the Middle East...the rights and the wrongs of each, and differing perspectives on them, are another argument altogether.

It is like arguments over the Burkha/Niquib etc...you can argue about it, show different perspectives on it, whether its good or bad etc...but the reality is that it creates angst amongst many in the West.

No,not applicable, why?
Because in a normal army conflict, families, people.. are not being bombarded in an extensive area!
Also, in many cases, we don't refer to Quran straightly, but ask our clerics (not all, but top clerics, also having political sense is important) to explain it by considering other Ayahs, and off course WISDOM, because it is selfish to say:
Hey Guys! There are Christians out there.
What to do?
Let's have a good fight!
By the way speaking from the capital Tehran asking such a question of people: "Fight Christians..."(even the term gives me the creep itself) such answers will not be unlikely:
1- Me (Calling Maria (the name of my Christian colleague))
Maria take care of yourself. Don't go out of your home.
Maria: Why?
Me: I don't know, I think there is a problem. Somebody said something about Christians.
2- What?? You mean Andranik Teymourian (member of Iran's football national team) cannot play anymore?
3- Come on.. I planned to go to Caspian sea with my Christian friend for the weekend..

You're looking at Islam in a very disjointed way. For a start the Koran is nothing like the Bible and should not be read as such. Some of it was written during a time of war, and its passages reflect that.

If you want to cherry pick there's plenty of blood and guts in the Bible. Christianity has given up plenty of rivers of blood, the Crusades, genocide in the Americas, the Spanish Inquisition not to mention all manner of pogroms, most but not all directed at the Jews. The Cathars were pretty much wiped out.

Next to that Islam looks pretty peaceful.

Why not try to have some peace and say something kind and gentle about Islam, Christianity and Judaism.

Bash...Bash...Bash will never get the civilized World anywhere...

false

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