58
   

Are there any peaceful muslim nations?

 
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2016 01:46 am
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:
I hope Trump doesn't win your Presidential Office. I think that would be a disaster.

It won't be a disaster. The Democrats are just scaremongering because they are scared of facing the next 20 years out of power. Everything will be all right.
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2016 03:29 am
@oralloy,
Not the reasons I think it would be a disaster - I'm not even sure what the difference between Democrats and Republicans is.

The US is now almost $20 trillion in debt?

How many times has Trump almost gone bankrupt? How has he pulled himself out of those situations? What style of leadership did he use to run his business? How did he deal with his suppliers? The answer to these sort of questions will reveal how he will run his Presidency, should he ever achieve the Whitehouse.

For what little I understand of the answers to those questions above, that alone leads me to suspect an economic disaster (if $20 trillion isn't already considered that).

Then, it appears to me, that he speaks his mind without huge amounts of thought behind it...and if he runs his presidency like his business, then there will not be people (left) prepared to:
- disagree with him
- play devils advocate
- broaden his perspective
- help him understand the consequences of particular policies

Good democracy needs people who are prepared to do this. Bad decisions get made in the vacuum of such.

As an example of the above, anyone who paid attention to how Colin Powell tried to moderate the Bush presidency, how he got sidelined, and the balls up the US made of the aftermath of Iraq (they didn't have a thought out plan for after the war), can see the consequences of lack of devils advocate (etc) and the resulting poorly thought out policy

I'm all for open debate, talking about problems, and trying to find solutions. I'm not for people who:
- are sure they are right
- are not prepared to listen to both sides
- forcefully shut down debate, just because they disagree
- personally denigrate others, etc

In a leader, these traits become much more problematic. Not only is there domestic politics to consider, but also Foreign Policy. Whatever the outcome of domestic politics (which I think would be very combative), I don't see Trump having the diplomatic ability to navigate effectively through foreign policy / politics.

Those concerns are at the heart of it, before one gets into his policies.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the plus side for Trump, his views stir up debate - something that has been sorely lacking on important issues. His views on those issues though, I think would be highly problematic, if he were to win.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2016 12:33 am
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/world/ansbach-explosion-suicide-bomber-mohammad-daleel-pledged-alliegiance-to-is-in-chilling-video/news-story/f4af7c7e265fa2b55bb58189fca405bb

Quote:
Ansbach explosion: Suicide bomber Mohammad Daleel pledged allegiance to IS in chilling video

THE Syrian suicide bomber who injured more than a dozen people near a German music festival pledged his allegiance to Islamic State in a chilling video released by the terror group...
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2016 12:35 am
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/world/hostages-taken-in-french-church-in-normandy-region/news-story/77883e137bf0b52683640764527f5c96

Quote:
Hostages taken in French church in Normandy region

Two Islamic State “soldiers” attacked French church
One attacker named as 19-year-old Adel Kermiche, convicted terrorist
Priest, two nuns and other worshippers were taken hostage
Priest was made to kneel before his throat was cut
Attack occurred in Saint-Etienne-du-Rouvray, Rouen at morning Mass
Two attackers shot by police, third suspect arrested
The church was on a terrorist “hit list”...
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2016 12:38 am
@vikorr,
When will apologists for this type of violence actually bother to look into the Quran & Islams ideology for themselves?

Surely, if it is a religion of peace, there won't be anything found in the Quran / Sunna / Hadiths justifying this evil?

Surely on such an increasingly important matter, people should find out the truth for themselves, rather than listening to propaganda, or just making assumptions about the religions ideology?

http://quran.com/

http://noblequran.com/translation/index.html

For reference, the Quran is:
- not in chronological order.
- It is not stories, but 'the revelations of god'
- Its dual in nature, in that it has many contradictory statements
- to overcome this duality - there exists the Islamic 'theory of abrogation' where a later revelation of allah is always stronger than an earlier revelation of Allah. Chapter (Surah) 9 is one of the last chapters 'revealed by Allah'

A reading from any discussion on the Quran can confirm this (wikipedia probably explains it)
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2016 02:04 am
@vikorr,
Because this is becoming such a big issue, and Islamophia, and in particular, Bigotry, is such a common accusation, I would like to address the issue:

1. If one person educates themself before forming an opinion - and the other doesn't before forming an opinion: who is the bigot?

2. If one person acknowledges evidence, and the other doesn't acknowledge evidence: who is the bigot?

3. If one person is polite about others views, and the other spews vitriol at others for disagreeing with them: who is the bigot?

4. If one person takes others views at face value, and the other person constantly misrepresents their 'opponents' views: who is the bigot?

5. If one person points out poor behaviour of their 'opponent' - with evidence, while the other person negatively labels and attempts to demonise their 'opponent': who is the bigot?

-------------------------------------------------

Before any side chucks around the word bigot / islamophobia - Isn't it incumbent on anyone who uses the words, to first ensure that they know what Islams holy texts actually say?

When actions (ongoing Islamic terrorist incidents) continually don't match words (Islam is a religion of peace), isn't it incumbent on us to find out why such a glaring discrepancy exists before we chuck around the words bigot, and Islamophia?

Should we make the accusation of bigotry from a position of ignorance (of the Quran/Hadiths)? Before we make such an accusation - on either side - should we not at least have a good idea of what is in these books?

I wonder how a person can arrive at the conclusion of bigotry regarding criticism of Islam, without first knowing what is in the Quran / Hadiths for themselves. Surely such an accusation should be made in knowledge rather than ignorance.


Links to the Quran are in the above post.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2016 11:42 pm
http://www.news.com.au/world/europe/priest-killer-adel-kermiche-was-radicalised-in-three-months-as-second-executioner-is-revealed/news-story/09fcd06b15ccd9a948364776e4fe8001<br />
Quote:
Priest killer Adel Kermiche was radicalised in three months as second executioner is revealed

ISLAMIC State has released a video purporting to show the two terrorists who forced a priest to kneel at the altar before slashing his throat in a French church...

PRIEST KILLER WAS RADICALISED IN THREE MONTHS

Kermiche became radicalised in just three months and was friends with a French jihadi involved in the beheading of Americans in Syria, it has emerged.

An 18-year-old neighbour said ... Kermiche had told him and others about his efforts to get to Syria and “he was saying we should go there and fight for our brothers.”

“We were saying that is not good. And he was replying that France is the land of unbelievers,” Redwan said.

The son of a professor, Kermiche had been a normal sports-mad Simpsons fan who loved singer Rihanna. But he became radicalised following the slaughter at satirical mag Charlie Hebdo in Paris in January 2015. His professor mum said he started going to a mosque more frequently and soon began lecturing her on conduct.

“He said that one couldn’t exercise one’s religion peacefully in France. He spoke with words that were not his. He was bewitched,” she said.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2016 11:53 pm
An example what I have been saying - that by not acknowledging the problem, the long term result is that politicians start losing control of the message (which then leads to poor solutions / more bloodshed / greater angst / less security).

Unfortunately, unless they come out and start openly discussing the issue, I think it will only get worse. Trying to deny this issue just feeds into radical / violent radical organisations. That in turn feeds into radical Islams message. In a country with what, 6 million Muslims (?) a downward spiral is quite easy to foresee.

So the question I ask is: when will they acknowledge the root cause of the problem, and start discussing it openly?

When will politicians realise that they are slowly creating a downward spiral of violence by continually denying the root issue?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/27/the-guardian-view-on-terror-in-europe-the-search-for-a-political-answer

Quote:
The Guardian view on terror in Europe: the search for a political answer
Editorial


After six terrorist assaults on civilians in less than a fortnight, France and Germany are reeling from a series of shocks that, beyond the immediate fears and tensions they have sown, will increasingly test Europe’s liberal democratic order. Both countries are experiencing an unprecedented wave of violent acts just as they gear up for key elections next year. An already volatile, angst-ridden situation is amplified by a political context of rising populism and partisan point-scoring.

As France struggles to cope with the aftermath of the killing of Father Jacques Hamel in his church near Rouen, barely 24 hours after Germany had experienced its fourth assault in a single week, the sentiment is growing that life as people have known it is unravelling; and that the new normal may resemble a mixture of unpredictable, hidden dangers and a rush to large-scale security measures. In France, where attacks began in 2012, talk of “war” with jihadi terrorism has become commonplace. There is a nationwide state of emergency. Germany neither talks of war, nor is there a state of emergency. But after Ansbach, the first Islamic State-claimed suicide bombing in Germany, the interior minister, Thomas de Maizière, acknowledged that Germany too had become a target for international terrorism.

In the immediate aftermath of each attack, the question is always why it was not foiled. In France, security flaws are blamed. In Germany, the argument is about monitoring refugees. The questions swirl regardless of whether or not there is a connection with last year’s massive refugee movement into Europe, or with radical Islam.

In both France and Germany in the aftermath of attacks, political passions quickly flared; but it is France’s political cohesion that appears under the greater strain. France’s show of national unity after the 2015 attacks in Paris swiftly fell apart in the aftermath of the Nice attack. François Hollande is now struggling to defend his credibility and resist growing demands for heightened security measures. Some of his rightwing critics even call for a “French Guantánamo”. Marine Le Pen’s far right Front National seized on Tuesday’s attack to say France’s “Christian roots” are in peril. Anti-immigrant hyperbole is rife. In Germany, political reactions are comparatively more subdued: Chancellor Angela Merkel’s popularity and authority remain strong. Her CSU Bavarian coalition partner wants stringent controls on migrants but, perhaps because its electoral prospects still hinge on the alliance with the chancellor’s CSU in the run-up to next year’s general election, it has avoided direct personal attacks on her. Germany’s far right has grown but it is still dwarfed by the French Front National. The anti-immigrant AfD party has prospered on a narrative of rejecting Muslims, but stumbled when it hastily and erroneously described the Munich attack as an act of jihadi fundamentalism.

Germany’s sense of its own history is a strong antidote against some of the more extremist tendencies currently at play in France. Where France’s political leadership has spoken more about the need to come out “victorious” from a “war” than about the tolerance and efforts needed to make diversity an asset rather than a problem, German officials have gone to great lengths to insist that terrorism should not be conflated with refugees or immigrants. Personal styles differ too: whereas Mr Hollande wants to appear combative and resolute against the “enemy”, Mrs Merkel expresses empathy for the victims rather than a penchant for military-type measures.

Whatever the contrasts, in heated political contexts ahead of each nation’s 2017 elections, the decisions and attitudes these leaders endorse will set an example for the whole of Europe. Two countries that already set the tone on many issues across a continent now scarred by hostility to refugees hover on the edge of deep, newly shared, uncertainties.
0 Replies
 
anthony1312002
 
  2  
Reply Sat 30 Jul, 2016 07:53 am
@CerealKiller,
A better question could be, are there any peaceful nations anywhere, Muslim or non Muslim? While some nations may not be as violent as others, each nation on earth has demonstrated a level of violence. True is what Jehovah says in his Word the Bible at Ecclesiastes 8:9 which states:

Ecclesiastes 8:9 All of this I have seen, and I applied my heart to every work that has been done under the sun, during the time that man has dominated man to his harm.

Men everywhere have demonstrated a willingness to dominate or control others by force for whatever their reasons might be. Happily there is a time coming when this situation will no longer exist for the Creator promises at Psalm 37:9-11 that he will bring an end to those who seek to dominate their fellow man. And vs 29 shows what beautiful conditions will exist once he has taken this necessary action.
cicerone imposter
 
  4  
Reply Sat 30 Jul, 2016 10:42 am
@anthony1312002,
To single out Muslims is an oxymoron. All nations have been responsible for wars - even amongst themselves. Some even had to do with religion.
vikorr
 
  0  
Reply Thu 4 Aug, 2016 01:08 am
In response to the ongoing terrorism problem, London Police are increasing the presence of it's armed police officers:

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/world/london-stabbing-knife-terror-attack-in-russell-square/news-story/f8dc85086494d913cf33faeb6489d9b0

Quote:
...The stabbing comes just hours after the Met police chief and mayor announced more armed police will be on patrol across the capital in a bid to deter terror attacks.

Metropolitan Police commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe said a rise in armed officers will be placed across London, including at famous sites and locations.

According to the BBC, the number of armed officers are set to jump from 600 to 2800.

While the Police Federation of England and Wales warned it would take months of training before the officers could hit the streets, the Met said the majority would be on patrol by April next year.
0 Replies
 
anthony1312002
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2016 07:22 am
@cicerone imposter,
Exactly. The Bible identifies as liers and hypocryts those who, while professing to believe in God, committ all sorts of autrocities. No matter what their background or belief.
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2016 09:04 am
@anthony1312002,
anthony1312002 wrote:

Exactly. The Bible identifies as liers and hypocryts those who, while professing to believe in God, committ all sorts of autrocities. No matter what their background or belief.

The Bible identifies its very own God as compelling his people to commit all sorts of atrocities in his name.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Aug, 2016 09:59 am
@anthony1312002,
The civil wars in both China and Russia resulted in eight million deaths. The civil war in the US resulted in almost one million casualties - if not more.
0 Replies
 
anthony1312002
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Aug, 2016 07:35 am
@InfraBlue,
The fact that God himself waged war against the Egyptians shows that he is not against all warfare. On other occasions, he authorized his people Israel to wage war. For example, he commanded them to wage war against the Canaanites, who were exceedingly wicked. (Deuteronomy 9:5; 20:17, 18) He directed Israel’s King David to war against the oppressive Philistines. God even provided David with a battle strategy that ensured victory.—2 Samuel 5:17-25.

Those Bible accounts reveal that when certain forms of wickedness and oppression threatened the Israelites, God authorized warfare for the protection of his people and the preservation of true worship. But note the following three key points about such God-ordained warfare.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Sep, 2016 08:44 pm
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/minto-stabbing-man-charged-with-sydney-terror-attack-and-attempted-murder/news-story/3c83512df1131a71c6c303eee7db0e15
Quote:
Minto stabbing: Man charged with Sydney terror attack and attempted murder

ASHLEIGH GLEESON and DAVID MEDDOWS, The Sunday Telegraph
September 11, 2016 10:32am


A SYDNEY man charged with committing a terrorist act and attempted murder after allegedly stabbing an unknown man on the street and then trying to knife a police officer was motivated by terror group ISIS.

The Joint Counter Terrorism Team - made up of investigators from the NSW and Australian Federal Police - charged Ihsas Khan, 22, this morning.

“This is the new face of terrorism, this is the new face of what we deal with,” Deputy Police Commissioner Cath Burn said at a press conference this morning.

She said police will be alleging Khan was inspired by ISIS, just one week after the terror group called on lone wolves to attack Australians...
0 Replies
 
High Strangeness
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2016 08:00 am
@InfraBlue,
said- "The Bible identifies its very own God as compelling his people to commit all sorts of atrocities in his name"
--------------------------------------------------

Self defence is not exactly an "atrocity"..Wink
For example if people had never stood up to aggressors, America would have been divided in two down the Mississippi by now, the Japs occupying the western half and the Nazis occupying the eastern half..Smile
0 Replies
 
High Strangeness
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2016 08:08 am
@CerealKiller,
asked- "anywhere there's muslims, brutal killings, internal war and opression is woven into the fabric of daily life. Is this true or are there peaceful muslim nations?
----------------------------------------------------

I can't think of any, heck muslims are even killing each other (Sunni vs Shiite) in muslim nations!
As for their hatred of us "infidels", the Koran doesn't allow them to like us-

[Koran 9.123]- "O you who believe! fight those of the infidels who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard against evil"
[Koran 5.51]- "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends.."

0 Replies
 
High Strangeness
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2016 08:16 am
Trump wants to keep muslims out of America, and we have to admit he's got a point..Wink

"...seven Muslim “chemical engineers” were caught trespassing at the Quabbin Reservoir, a key supply of water for Boston, after midnight."
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/08/update-seven-muslims-caught-trespassing-at-quabbin-reservoir-is-a-criminal-matter/

"...devastating wildfires continues to rage across the American West, the question of arson as a form of major terrorism is again being raised.
..The 2015 fire season set a new record for the number of acres burned in the United States...there were 68,151 wildfires, which burned 10,125,149 acres, according to the National Interagency Fire Center."
http://www.wnd.com/2013/09/are-terrorists-setting-u-s-wildfires/
http://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/wildfires

cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sun 11 Sep, 2016 10:06 am
@High Strangeness,
The only point Trump proves is that he doesn't understand our Constitution, and that he's a bigot.
0 Replies
 
 

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