Are there any peaceful muslim nations?

TASHKENT, Uzbekistan (AP) -- President Islam Karimov blamed suicide bombings against the U.S. and Israeli embassies on the same group behind similar attacks earlier this year, pleading in a nationwide TV address Saturday for Uzbeks to spurn extremist Islamic influences.

But, the word Christian is derived from Christ's name, and anyone who has read Him has no backing in His words or teachings that murder is OK under any circumstances--and He never called anyone to kill or try to establish a worldwide Christian government.

I do hope Christians will have the backbone to rein in and condemn the pockets of Christian oppression where they exist and I hope peace loving Muslims will have the backbone to denounce and condemn the Muslim extremists who make war and terrorize peace loving people.

All that it takes for good to prevail is for good people to insist on it no matter what they call themselves.

For more than two centuries, Wahhabism has been Saudi Arabia's dominant faith. It is an austere form of Islam that insists on a literal interpretation of the Koran. Strict Wahhabis believe that all those who don't practice their form of Islam are heathens and enemies

Wahhabism's explosive growth began in the 1970s when Saudi charities started funding Wahhabi schools (madrassas) and mosques from Islamabad to Culver City, California

If you go to school in Saudi Arabia, what do you learn about people who are not followers of Wahhabi, of the prophet?

The religious curriculum in Saudi Arabia teaches you that people are basically two sides: Salafis [Wahhabis], who are the winners, the chosen ones, who will go to heaven, and the rest. The rest are Muslims and Christians and Jews and others.

They are either kafirs, who are deniers of God, or mushrak, putting gods next to God, or enervators, that's the lightest one. The enervators of religion who are they call the Sunni Muslims who ... for instance, celebrate Prophet Mohammed's birthday, and do some stuff that is not accepted by Salafis.

And all of these people are not accepted by Salafi as Muslims. As I said, "claimant to Islam." And all of these people are supposed to be hated, to be persecuted, even killed. And we have several clergy -- not one Salafi clergy -- who have said that against the Shi'a and against the other Muslims. And they have done it in Algeria, in Afghanistan. This is the same ideology. They just have the same opportunity. They did it in Algeria and Afghanistan, and now New York. ...

What do you mean, it reached New York?

Well, when it was a local problem, the American media did not really care much about it. But until September 11, you saw how this faith of hate, I call it, did to all of us, to New Yorkers and to the rest of the world, honestly. ...

... Yes, Prince Nayif condemned bin Laden, and other princes... Prince Turki condemned bin Laden. They did not condemn that message. They condemned bin Laden. ... Bin Laden learned this in Saudi Arabia. He didn't learn it in the moon. That message that Bin Laden received, it still is taught in Saudi Arabia. And if bin Laden dies, and this policy or curriculum stays, we will have other bin Ladens. ...

Can you show me an example of what the [religious teaching is in the schools?

Well, here, this is a book, hadif, for ninth grade. Hadif is a statement of Prophet Mohammed. This is a book that start for ninth graders. This is talking about the victory of Muslims over Jews. This is a hadif that I truly believe it's not true, as a Muslim:

"The day of judgment will not arrive until Muslims fight Jews, and Muslim will kill Jews until the Jew hides behind a tree or a stone. Then the tree and the stone will say, 'Oh Muslim, oh, servant of God, this is a Jew behind me. Come and kill him.' Except one type of a tree, which is a Jew tree. That will not say that." This is taught for 14-year-old boys in Saudi Arabia.

In middle schools...

In middle schools, yes. Official middle schools. This is a book printed by Saudi government Ministry of Education.

Probably there would be a relation between an interpretation of Islam that lacks tolerance, and is a more narrow vision of the world. But particularly the problem is about the political systems that promote this type of interpretation of religion. This gives people the excuse, the platform, to go ahead and express themselves in Islamic language to suit their purpose of political ends

The dominant school of Islam with which the Taliban associate -- which is known as the Deobandi school -- is very prominent in Afghanistan and also in wide areas of Pakistan. Northern India has increasingly gravitated toward Wahhabi teaching, and has very, very strong organizational ties with various Wahhabi religious leaders.

The nature of these Islamic beliefs, you're saying, foster fundamentalist extremism?

The teachings are fundamentalist in the definition you have in mind. The question is who's going to cross the line and engage in violent acts or not

If you freeze things at his time -- which was the eighteenth century, or the late part of the seventeenth century, I don't remember the dates exactly -- it becomes very stagnant and very literalist. And a very straitjacketed puritan approach that does not cater to the changeables and the dynamics of life. People call this Wahhabism

Saudis, by the way, never say, "We are Wahhabis." They say, "We are just Muslims." But they follow the teachings, and the major booklets taught in all schools are the books of Muhammed bin Abd al-Wahhab. Anyone who's subscribing to someone else is not very much welcomed.

So there's a quote in the [New York Times] article that we were looking at before that basically says that Saudi Arabians believe that their form of Islam ... is the real true form of Islam, and that pretty much any other kind of way of practicing Islam is wrong.

Yes.

So they, that group of people, believe that this is the only form and it does not change. This of course creates major problems, and it creates some kind of schizophrenic situation. ... I don't think that Wahhabism ... will condone or accept lots of things that are done by some of the elite of Saudi Arabia who come to Las Vegas and have fun and do this and do that. And we don't hear a very strong voice exposing this or condemning them for that. But if they see a woman driving a car, they consider this a major sin. There is confusion here

Mohammed did not exactly write the Qu'ran perse but rather dictated it over a relatively short period of time late in his life. At least that is what I have been told. He is believed by Islam to be the last and greatest of the great prophets.

He is believed by Islam to be the last and greatest of the great prophets.

I don't think Glad thinks all Christians are out to get him either.

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The personal testimony of the distinguished freethinker, ex-Muslim, Dr. Ali Sina. This testimony was first published on his website:

“Talabe ilm ba’d az wossule ma’loom mazmoom”. The search of knowledge after gaining it is foolish

I suppose it was my acquaintance with the western humanistic values that made me more sensitive and whet my appetite for democracy, freethinking, human rights, equality, etc. It was then that when I read again Quran I came across injunctions that were not al par with my newfound humanistic values, I was distressed and felt very uncomfortable to read teachings like these.

Q.3: 5
”But those who reject Faith after they accepted it, and then go on adding to their defiance of Faith,- never will their repentance be accepted; for they are those who have gone astray”.

Q.16: 106
”Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief,- except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty.”

Sahih Bukhari Volume 6, Book 61, Number 577:

I heard the Prophet saying, "In the last days (of the world) there will appear young people with foolish thoughts and ideas. They will give good talks, but they will go out of Islam as an arrow goes out of its game, their faith will not exceed their throats. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for there will be a reward for their killers on the Day of Resurrection."

for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

Eight men of the tribe of 'Ukil came to the Prophet and then they found the climate of Medina unsuitable for them. So, they said, "O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with some milk." Allah's Apostle said, "I recommend that you sh ould join the herd of camels." So they went and drank the urine and the milk of the camels (as a medicine) till they became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels, and they became unbelievers after they were Muslims. When the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails, which were heated and passed over their eyes, and they were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died.

And from Partial Translation

The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) Said: The blood of a Muslim man who ……..)

The following is very disturbing. I dare to say any man who read it and is not taken aback with disgust has a long way to go to become a human.

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4348

”Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:
A blind man had a slave-mother who used to abuse the Prophet…..

Muhammad himself slept with Mariyah the maid slave of Hafsa his wife without marrying her.)

Imagine how many innocent women, were killed by their husbands during these 1400 years who escaped punishment accusing their murdered wives of blaspheming the prophet of God and this Hadith has made them get away with it.

I could no more accept that the punishment of someone who criticizes any religion must be death

Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas:
The verse "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah ……

I could not accept the fact that Muhammad slaughtered 900 Jews in one day, after he captured them in a raid that he started. I read the following story and I shivered.

Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah:
A thief was brought to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him). He said: Kill him. …..

Q.5: 51
“O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as awliya’ (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but awliya’ to one another…”

I also found the above statement false. The evidence is in the Bosnia and Kosovo crisis; where Christian countries, waged war against another Christian country, to liberate Muslims. Many Jewish doctors volunteered to help the Kosovar refugees, despite the fact that during the WWII, the same Albanian Muslims took side with Hitler and helped him in his holocaust against the Jews

It became obvious to me that Muslims are accepted by all the people of the world yet our prophet wants us to hate them, to disassociate ourselves from them, to force them into our way of life or kill them, subdue them and make them pay Jizya. How silly! How pathetic! How inhumane! No wonder there is so much inexplicable hate of the West and of the Jews among Muslims. It was Muhammad who inseminated the hate and the distrust of the non-believers among his followers. How Muslims can ever integrate with other nations while holding these hateful massages of Quran as the words of God?

It worries me that you think insulting someone's god is a good reason to kill them.
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no .. no …not someone, a Muslim\Christian\others can insult me day and night but I can not kill him\them. But insulting a prophet isn't the same. This applies for all of them not just Muhammad. Insulting Muhammed is also insulting the religion. Very simple as that. That women was insulting Islam.

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People HERE insult God and Jesus on a regular basis, and even though it may really bother some people, no one claims the right to kill them. We agree they have the right to speak their views. Islam doesn't allow this--and that aspect of Islam is dangerous and cultish, IMO.

Why any would insult God? I'm schocked. If you don't believe in him why to insult him. Insulting Jesus is a big sin for as as well as Muhammad.

Views about What? I told you if any wants to start a new religion then we would accept his opnion and view but no one can come and change my religion based on his view. That dose not go in Islam, otherwise we could end with million different quran.

No one is allowed to change our religion using the names of freethinking and freedom and the right of opinions. You can do in other aspect of life but not Islam.

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The Democracy I believe in, and the equality gives women equal rights to men. Islam oppresses women. This is wrong. No one learns anything about equality from Islam

I don't believe in democracy, and I don't see it. Islam gives women total rights. Give me one example how Islam oppresses women? I hope you are not talking about Hijab? Hijab protects women.

They way I look at the western women mainly as "a tool to please men". Get ***** and then dumped, striptease, etc…

I see our women in heaven comparing to western. We have rare cases of rape, rare cases against women in general.

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I wish you would click on the link I provided on the previous page, and read some of the life experiences of former Muslims.

I know what they say, just fooling around, people like Ali Sina Who?

But why don't you click on the link I provided (Islam and science) and read some of the miracles that proofs prophet didn't write it (this we don't have doubt about it).

Why I don't give you real Islamic sites instead of those calling themselves ex-muslims?

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The American wars you remind me of were not based on trying to further our religion, or oppress people into devotion to God. Fatwas are invoked against people simply because they don't believe in Islam anymore. Doesn't Salman Rushdie have the right to believe as his conscious guides him? Don't you have that same right?

no we come to salman roshde….

I told you if he believes in something, he keeps it for himself if that related to Islam. If he wants to start a new thing, go ahead but not telling lies through his book about Islam.

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How many Islamic women and young girls have been beaten or murdered because of being raped (honor killings), or simply not covering enough of their bodies? No religion should approve of such atrocities.

Ohhhhh my Lord, Ohhhh my god,, ohhhhhh my god…I don't believe what I'm reading? We killed women (honer killing) where that happen.?

And if any one dose such a thing, then HELL IS WAITING FOR HIM in the principle of Islam.

but few do it (specially in the areas of north Pakistan, Most of them are drug dealers) they claim to be Muslims and they know nothing about it. They do it for the name of traditional and honor not in the name of Islam.

Oh may god.

OK nimh--

Maybe you're right. Find me one reference where Christ advocates violence against those of other religions--or ANYBODY for that matter and I'll never bring up this subject again.

I haven't "fallen back" on a claim that I want to open this for discussion. I can't imagine why you would say such a thing. [..]

It isn't panic mongering to speak to the facts of what is going on in MANY madrasses--the books they use include violent ideas and instruction. This is a fact.

Thank you for your input. I've learned a lot from you. What does the hijab protect women from?

Did you go to a madrass? If so, in what country was it located?

I will bring information about honor killings and women's roles in Islam, which make me say women are oppressed in Islamic culture.

According to "The Almanac Book of Facts", the population increased 137% within the past decade, Christianity increased 46%, while Islam increased 235%.
In a recent poll in the (US), 100,000 people per year in America alone, are converting to Islam. For every 1 male convert to Islam, 4 females convert to Islam, Why?

Considering our different opinions about a subject so close to you, I commend you for your courtesy.