billyfalcon, I hope Wildflower understands now, and forgives you.
Just for the record, in this part of the country (Northwest), welfare's cash portion equals approximately 20 hours of work at minimum wage -- per month. If you don't have minor children or a disability you can't get it at all. Housing (Section 8) is pretty much a three to five year wait. Again, with children, disability, or age as a qualifier. And you still pay a portion of the rent (out of your cash welfare check). Food stamps? About $150/month for a family of four (mom OR dad and three kids -- one parent families only...).
It's okay as a stopgap. Working is better. Wildflower's experience is just awful, as was Montana's. (Mine wasn't so great, either; how do you think I know this stuff?)...
Wildflower, I read strength in your posts. Even though you're having an awful time, your head is on straight and you will persevere, I know it.
May I quote Noddy? Hold your dominion.
Wy
I had no pride whatsoever when I went to the social welfare office. I needed the money just to pay my rent, the rest I took care of by writing checks... After a while I had to sell the stocks my mom gave me to cover them.
I asked one of the social workers what I would have to do to be able to recieve welfare "I've paid my taxes, I've been working, and now you won't help me? Do I have to be a junkie, ex-con, or an alcoholic to recieve welfare?" And the woman behind the desk said that it would certainly help if I was any of the three...
BTW, this was in my homecountry Sweden, home of all social security...
and I'll quote Noddy and Wy, wildflower... Hold your dominion!
There must be a way to have your children watched. My daughter is 16, and I won't leave her at home, when I have to be gone for hours. Not because she has done anything--but she has friends I'm concerned about. When I have to go out of town for most of the day--she has to stay with my sister or my mother. Do you have anyone in town, who will come over, or where they can go?
I know this is 'tough love' but maybe the state SHOULD take them for a while. If they refuse to live by your standards, and they are completely out of control, and into drugs-- Sit them down and tell them they have pushed things beyond your control. That you will fight for them one last time--but they are writing their ticket to FosterCare. If they screw up again--YOU will call Social Services. They have to see you take a stand.
There's only so much a parent can do. Looks like you're maxed out.
Why is the house in such condition? The kids? Or, are you so depressed you're decompensating?
I hate what is happening to you. It can get better.
(I think you're depressed. What do you think?)
I have experienced time when we did not have money for milk for the baby or groceries for ourselves, but there was sufficient employment that we did not quite have to go on welfare. I would in a heartbeat, however, if it meant the difference between my child being fed or hungry.
A moral society takes care of those who for whatever reason are unable to take care of themselves and some kind of social safety net is essential to accomplish that I think.
So is someone who needs that temporary safety net a bum? No way.
Is somebody who wouldn't have to but settles for welfare and is content to live on it a bum? Yes.
Why can't you get rid of those houses and into something better? Can one of them be salvaged? The kids won't help you clean up?
Reading back--I see you are seriously depressed. You are flailing around, as if you have no control over anything--even the cleanliness of the house.
You do have control over several things--but you're too depressed to see it. I've been there. If you get in with a psychiatrist and start meds-- and make plans to have your kids watched--even force them to get jobs, while you work--ask Social Services to help you!! Tell them you are depressed and are taking steps to correct it. Have them drop by to check on your kids. Turn it around on them--and ask for help.
Get rid of the extra house...Rent it.
You are so bogged down. Meds can open your eyes, and you will see a different reality. Right now, you're a leaf caught in a current. You can change that.
Sofia is giving solid advice. I also recommend that those of you who have been in abusive relationships go see the folks at the local domestic violence shelter or center or whatever you have in your area. You will get more than just good moral support there; you'll get some important counsel along with survival skills.
This posting is a followup to the accusation I made about John Wayne:
Why should anyone on welfare be ashamed and feel guilty about it? Let's take a hard look at real players of the system. No guilt, no apologies about honor, just a heavy-duty welfare system.
Myth: Early Americans built this land on rugged individualism.
Fact: They were helped a great deal by the government and a strong community spirit.
Summary
The U.S. government played a vital role in settling the West, including massive land purchases and giveaways, the Homestead Act, the Pony Express, agricultural colleges, rural electrification, telephone wiring, road-building, irrigation, dam-building, farm subsidies, and farm foreclosure loans. Without such help, settling the West would have been nearly impossible.
Argument
Most Americans have accepted the myth that early Americans were rugged individualists, pioneers who blazed trails into the Western hills and overcame adversity on the strength of their own self-reliance.
'Tain't necessarily so.
Entire books could be written about how white Americans got rich off the labor of their slaves, all the while waxing rhapsodic over the virtues of self-reliance. Volumes could be written about the early American women who created extensive social networks and church groups to help each other's families, all the while their men were entertaining the conceit of rugged individualism. But this is an essay devoted to the government's contribution to early American survival, so it will address that topic only: (1)
From the start, the West was not conquered by rifle-toting pioneers, but by the U.S. Army. (Hardly a government "success," to be sure, but the point here is that the stereotype of the lone pioneer conquering the West is a myth.) The government made massive land purchases, without which the conquest of these territories would have been even bloodier. It spent $15 million on the Louisiana Purchase, $25 million on the Texas/California purchase, and $7 million for the Alaska Purchase.
The government then turned around and sold this land below cost, at considerable loss to itself. The Preemption Act of 1841, the Graduation Act of 1854 and the Homestead Act of 1862 all gave away land to pioneers for a song.
The government also played a crucial role in developing these lands. When it came to connecting the Great Lakes to the Eastern seaboard with canals, the government funded or financially guaranteed three fourths of the $200 million project. It also gave each state 30,000 acres of land to build agricultural colleges. It would be difficult to overstate how important these colleges were in advancing agricultural education and techniques among the farmers. With their help, American farmers were quickly able to create a working agricultural economy. Meanwhile, the government provided mail services like the Pony Express that interconnected this economy.
At the farthest edges of the frontier, the settlers were literally lawless; gun-fighting and dueling were rampant. It was only when the government moved in that law and order and a sense of community were established. Disease, attacks from Native Americans and economic chaos at the frontier often turned towns into ghost towns overnight. Not surprisingly, group survival proved more effective than true hermitism. Historian John Mack Farragher described life on the frontier as "a community experienceÂ… Sharing work with neighbors at cabin raisings, log rollings, hayings, husking, butchering, harvesting or threshing were all traditionally considered communal affairsÂ… [A] 'borrowing system' allowed scarce tools, labor and products to circulate for the benefit of all." One pioneer told prospective settlers: "Your wheel-barrows, your shovels, your utensils of all sorts, belong not to yourself, but to the public who do not think it necessary even to ask a loan, but take it for granted."
The government continued to develop the West in the early 20th century. It constructed dams and subsidized huge irrigation projects. During the Great Depression, rural electrification programs brought electricity to farmers, which enabled them to use power tools, refrigeration and household appliances to make their work and personal lives easier. The government also built highways into the West, and wired the countryside for telephone service. The government saved countless small farmers by giving them loans to stall foreclosures and tide them over the rough times. And it began paying huge farming subsidies that continue to this day.
Even then, it was not the small pioneer, but the major corporation that settled the West, often with vast help from the government. By the turn of the century, the government had distributed a billion acres of land, but only 147 million became homesteads. Sociologists Scott and Sally McNall estimate that "probably only one acre in nine went to the small pioneers." Some 183 million acres were ultimately given to the railroad companies. (It was these federal giveaways that created the major logging companies, not family businesses.) Four out of five transcontinental railroads were built in this way, and Congress approved loans up to $48,000 per mile to build them.
The West has a rich tradition of dependency on government. As historian Stephanie Coontz says: "It would be hard to find a Western family today or at any time in the past whose land rights, transportation options, economic existence, and even access to water were not dependent on federal funds." Paradoxically, however, the West has also enjoyed a long tradition of anti-government sentiments. When John Wayne punched out "Mr. Government Bureaucrat" in a Hollywood Western, he was acting out the misplaced rage of many Western Americans.
In closing, the story of the Montana Freemen is especially revealing. This is the radical anti-government militia that kept the FBI at bay in an armed stand-off that lasted for months. It turns out that they had stalled foreclosure on their farms for ten years by accepting $676,082 in government farming subsidies and loans.
Apparently, government assistance makes one ungrateful.
1. This essay is based on Stephanie Coontz, The Way We Never Were (New York: HarperCollins, 1992), pp. 73-76.
Interesting essay, Billy.
Also just chiming in to say I very much agree with your comments here.
(Another person who was briefly on welfare -- SSI -- when there were no other options. About 6 months total, I think.)
I'll make my post short. We were a welfare family; our mother took care of three children without a husband. My father died when I was two. Yes, we were on welfare, and we lived in hostels where many families lived in one house or room. But thanks to our lucky stars, we were in the good ole US of A, where we had the opportunity to better oursevles. My older brother became an attorney, and ended up as a administrative judge in California. My younger brother became a ophthalmologist, and is now a state assemblyman. My younger sister is a nurse. Our children have realized the American Dream. My younger brother's oldest is also a ophthalmologist married to a doctor. The second daughter has a PhD in special education. His son is an attorney. My sister's oldest two are physicians. The third is a dentist, and the youngest is now working towards her PhD in chemistry at UCLA on scholarship. Our older son has a masters in communication science. Our younger son is working towards a degree in psychology. Not too shabby if I say so myself.
Billy
Thank you very much for your sympathies, but I don't need them anymore. The hell I described is something that I went through in the past and already have gotten past. Some of the emotional scars still linger a tiny bit, but today I am truly happy and have found an amazing peace in my life. This is why I told Wildflower that her day will come and I truly hope she comes here to tell us about it when it happens. When you go through what she's going through, when she finally does find that peace in her life, she's going to appreciate it all the more, just as I have :-D
Thank you for your kind thoughts :-)
Wildflower
(((Hugs)))
I would also like to add that as horrible my experiences were, they have made me a much stronger person in the end, so hang in there Wildflower.
Billy,
That was a grand misunderstanding! As you probably guessed, I thought you were saying I was full of it. In reality, I'm not and will explain my question post. I guess that I really do owe you an apology for biting your head off, which I have become a little to talented at these days.
I have a seriously problematic husband and son. To start with, my husband is an alcoholic, pot head. I'm lucky the police broke up the last one before my face was smashed and I needed plastic surgery. Funny thing about abuse is, it grows slowly. I never believed my husband would do anything more than bully and scare me half to death with threats. His addiction problems are out of control and so is he.
My son is problematic also and another pothead and high school drop out. He is a really nice person. He makes very stupid decisions. I tried everything from the carrot to the stick, just to get him to pass school. I tried everything any parent would. I even had a psychiatric evaluation on him by a specialist of children and adolescents.
I left my husband for about five years. My son was so out of control, he cost me thousands of dollars in legal fees, which my husband did not help with or bother physically and financially. I thought abuse was bad when I left. I didn't really intend for a five year separation. I ran in fear and didn't come back, but time passes quickly.
I ended up losing a good job and my apartment because of my son and his lousy choice in friends, which he has no shortage of. My daughter even asked me yesterday why he has so many friends and she has so few. I told her that he is not able to discriminate good from bad and trust everyone, when he shouldn't. He uses very poor judgment.
After an eviction and job loss, over my son, I came home with the kids. I don't need a babysitter. I need an armed guard for these kids. My daughter is lazy thinking the world owes her something, at 13. My son has shown great improvement, but has a way to go.
After being beaten, I have a large house, which my husband destroyed by neglect, and behind bills to pay, with no job. Someone has to stare at these teen kids every second. I paid thousands of dollars moving in here, with bills my husband owed.
Morally speaking, he owes us something, but immoral people only care about themselves. I need to get real and stop having hope that I can help another, but I am an RN. I chose this profession for this very reason and need for money and flexibility with children to raise, just in case my marriage went to intolerable and it did.
The reason I asked this question is the fact that I feel like an idiot for trying. I tried very hard. Every time I take one step forward, my son or husband smack me back about ten steps.
It is the working poor that have it rough, like me. You try so hard to make things work, somehow. I don't know what it is about me. I do feel compassion for others. I do help those in need. My husband didn't want my help, which I found out way too late. He only wanted to use me financially and did.
My son is a different story. He needs far more guidance than most kids. He is 17 years old. He smokes pot, which I can do nothing about except for not allowing it in my house. He has earned such a lousy reputation with police, I can't even let him out of the house, with his poor choices of 'friends' and doesn't get it that these people are not friends at all.
This kid may do stupid things, but all teens do, but maybe not to his magnitude. He is very socially popular. Everyone likes him. He is not a thief or liar. He is a pothead that needs a parent, which his father has never been to either of these kids. He is agreeable, but not quite ready yet, for further education.
I insist that he work full time in a dishroom at a large hotel. He shows up on time. He has good work ethic. He is also immature and wants to smoke pot with his friends and has the cash to do it, but gets sick of being used.
After being beaten, by my husband, I had no job. I stared at these teen kids. I allowed my son to have four friends in the basement. I put cable TV in, video games, stereo. They got old furniture. I could easily supervise them, when I wasn't working and did. It kept him off the street, getting into legal trouble. It kept him out of cars with druggie drivers, where he may end up dead. I kept him home to allow him to grow up.
History has a way of repeating itself. Once again, a working person who tries, has the party at their place by teens that don't take anything too seriously. Apparently drugs were sold out of my house, which I believe was during a four day stretch, working second shift. I noticed a scrip medication of mine missing that was there before I went to work, which I reported to police, requesting the watch my house for anyone who does not live here as unwelcome.
The police have been watching one of my son's friends, who lives on my street. Apparently, he is a drug dealer, but never has money at all. Because of this guy selling small quantity drugs, which I was told by a narcotic officer, he deals X. What? He sold drugs from my house, to a narcotic agent, without my knowledge or I would have never let him in my house at all.
This is a guy living right down the street for me. This is an very expensive and exclusive neighborhood I live. I knew he had drug problems, which I tried, many times talking to him about. To my knowledge, the only thing he has been arrested for was not paying his child support, not drugs. He is 25, but looks and acts about 15 years old. I always felt bad for him. Apparently, you can't try to help anyone these days, unless you wish to go to jail for their crimes, which I am about to.
It is what you don't know that is the problem, many times. I have called one family, very well though of in this neighborhood, asking them not to allow their kids in here. I first throw the kid out and tell them why, they are bringing beer in my house and are minors.
When it didn't stop, I called their very shocked parents that just can't believe their kids could possibly be a problem. They are bringing beer in my house and I will not allow them back and asked them to inform their children they were not welcome here and why.
My house got raided by police, searched top to bottom, because of one friend who apparently sold drugs to a narcotics agent, without my knowledge, while I was working. I know of two other houses in the neighborhood that were searched also. I am the only one who did not go to jail, but there is pot smoking stuff from my husband and son that I did not know about taken from here. The police would not even let me see what they removed from here.
If a divorce, new full time job, and no one that will help me, isn't bad enough to deal with, I have charges against me pending. I have everything from child endangerment to drug possession going. This is going to cost me thousands of dollars in legal fees and don't forget the fact that you felt like dying in the first place, just trying to live with a new job, with responsibility for life, and spoiled kids who wont bother to do the dishes thinking it is party time because you are gone.
You try to do the right thing. You go to work. You pay your bills. I owe money to my parents while my face healed, since they loaned me money to pay bills and eat before I got a job.
How many thousands of dollars and stress overload is this going to cost? I get to pay it, but am in no shape to even work. How on earth am I going to live and support these kids? I can't! If I were home, not working, this would have never happened to me. Given my son is a minor and the fact that I let his minor friends in completely supervised, when I was not working, I was completely taking advantage of.
I am trying so hard to adjust to being beaten and taken advantage of by my husband with a nightmare of a dog fight divorce going on. Not only did he use me for money, thousands of dollars, but he beat me bloody. This is an emotional horror. So is living with abuse, when you feel like you have to in order to care for your children. Now I am threatened with having my kids taken away because I couldn't afford to repair the house. I am also going to jail and will probably lose my nursing license over it. So much for trying!!
I can't sleep. Every time I try to eat, it goes right through me. I can't go to a doctor and know my blood pressure is probably out of control. I have no health insurance. My husband went to jail and had his mother lie about his disappearance and lost a 20+ year job, in order to save face, which they are big on. I am left with a serious responsibility dump. I wish that I had no ethics. Life would be better for me.
I called in sick for the day after my house was searched. This is like being raped, having an army of cops going through everything you own and threatening you. I thought it would give me time to calm down to work my next scheduled shift, given I had the weekend off. The only unbelievable good news is, they actually like my work and want to keep me and are willing to give me time. I called them to say I was not capable of working full time and expected to lose another job. It really has been quite a few years since I actually got any good news at all.
I'm ready to put a gun in my mouth, but the cops took our guns, legally owned and registered. I'm going to jail and know it. Live with that idea, just because you did the responsible thing and went to work and paid your bills and debt to others!
I feel like an idiot for even bothering to try. I have personally known welfare bums. They have housing, in good repair. I have what I can pay for, a house in serious disrepair. Now, they are threatening me with Social Services and taking my kids from me.
If I were a welfare bum, none of this would have happened to begin with. My house would not have been raided. I wouldn't own two different lawyers a ton of money, which I had to borrow, creating more debt. I could have been here to see who was in my house, which my son had to as permission for anyone to be here. No permission needed when Mom is working, right?
I am going to jail because I took the ethical road, pay you bills, work to support your family. I committed no crime at all, my son and husband did with their pot habit. I knew they were both potheads, but had no idea what or where they stashed anything. I have not been able to think straight, ever since my husband beat me and was removed from the house, in handcuffs, leaving me with a multitude of financial problems.
I didn't see anything from my son, not that my attention span would even notice anything right in front of my face. I am trying very hard to learn a new job, as Nursing Supervisor, running an entire nursing home. I come home exhausted and have to do it again tomorrow. I also have to get this house in condition to sell, which isn't easy at all. I was in overload a long time ago because I didn't choose welfare. I felt it was legal theft from the working person. Now, I feel like and idiot for having ethics. No one else seems to.
I am trying to make it, just one more day. My kids wont bother to do anything to clean up this house while I am working. What am I supposed to do about this, ground them and go to work, when I cannot enforce any punishment? I was nailed for dirty dishes that my daughter was supposed to do. I have a dishwasher, but she couldn't care less and neither could my son about the problems they cause me.
I guess my point is, the working person gets screwed, not welfare bums. They call the landlord, if anything breaks. Working people have to live with it until they have the money to fix it. Working people can have their kids taken away, if they don't live up to standards they cannot enforce, while at work.
Given the fact that I am not a welfare bum, I have no health insurance and neither do my kids. I can't even pay a doctor for a simple office visit. I can't pay for a serious plumbing problem with my upstairs bathroom. My husband paid for his addiction and left us with enough money to eat and behind bills. I am left with this problem.
I should have been a welfare bum!
