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Realistic Expectations for Iraq

 
 
Reply Mon 31 May, 2004 09:18 pm
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 879 • Replies: 8
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Radikal
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 May, 2004 10:40 pm
A Right Wing Pipedream
There are pipedreams and there is reality.

Full Sovereignty?
Throughout the spring, as hundreds died in the spiraling conflict, as Regime bosses applied their hardcore "anti-terrorist" tortures to innocent bystanders raked up in their occupation nets, as Regime mouthpieces prated endlessly of "liberation" and "sovereignty," Bush viceroy Paul Bremer was quietly signing a series of edicts that will give the United States effective control over the military, ministries -- and money -- of any Iraqi government, for years to come, The Wall Street Journal reports.

Bremer has placed U.S.-appointed "commissions" made up of Americans and local puppets throughout Iraqi government agencies; the ministers supposedly in charge weren't even told of the edicts. These boards "will serve multiyear terms and have significant authority to run criminal investigations, award contracts, direct troops and subpoena citizens," the Journal reports. Any new Iraqi government "will have little control over its armed forces, lack the ability to make or change laws and be unable to make major decisions within specific ministries without tacit U.S. approval, say U.S. officials."


Earlier Bremer edicts laid the Iraqi economy wide open to ruthless exploitation by Bush-approved foreign "investors"; dominance of such key sectors as banking, communications -- and energy -- is already well advanced. The latest dictates aim to ensure that this organized looting goes on, no matter what kind of makeshift "interim government" the United Nations manage to piece together. Bush's plans to build a Saddamite fortress embassy in Baghdad and 14 permanent military bases around the country are designed to provide the knee-breaking "security" for these lucrative arrangements



http://context.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2004/05/21/120.html

* I strongly suspect that sometime in July there will be a mass Uprising of Sunnis, Kurds and Shi'ites calling for the Occupation to end and Multi-Corps to leave Iraq. The US Right Wing Pipedream will be over.
0 Replies
 
Adrian
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 May, 2004 11:12 pm
Good article perception.

Just a small point re. who is doing the tilting.

Quote:
I believe that history will judge George Bush 41, Mikhail Gorbachev, Brent Scowcroft, James Baker, Helmut Kohl, Margaret Thatcher and François Mitterrand very kindly for the way they collectively took the Soviet Empire, which was tilted in the wrong direction for so long, and tilted it in the right direction, with barely a shot fired. That was one of the great achievements of the 20th century.


Notice the multinational nature of the names mentioned? Why, the then leader of the USSR is even in there.

That's what I would term "multilateral tilting" and I support the concept.

Who is doing the tilting in Iraq?

MULTI, versus, UNI lateral. That's my main issue.
0 Replies
 
Mr Stillwater
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 May, 2004 11:32 pm
We haven't even begun to 'help' our Arab friends to democracy.....

Quote:
But security, although vital, is not enough to ensure stability. That requires reform. And while history provides plenty of examples of the dangers to absolutist regimes of attempting to reform, only that will ensure the long-term survival of the al-Saud.

As things stand, Saudi Arabia provides near laboratory conditions to incubate thousands of bin Ladens. The oil-dominated economy produces few jobs to employ a fast-growing, restless population. Neo-central planning inhibits investment, while getting Saudis into jobs now occupied by millions of foreigners raises costs because locals get paid, on average, three times more. School textbooks drip with religious bigotry, while technology exposes Saudis to the full blast of modernity. The stultifying control of the mosque and political grip of the security services underpin a bloated monarchy.


FT.com Opinion
0 Replies
 
perception
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 09:20 am
Adrian

You and others insist on using the politically correct terminology of "multilateralism" vs "unilateral". This to me is idealistic "mumbo jumbo" especially when making really critical "life or death" decisions. Why do you think a corporation has a "CEO"? One person making the final decision??? In some situations, making decision by committee is a slow but sure road to failure. The Bush administration recognition that something was very rotten in the failure of France, Russia and Germany to support us in "liberating" Iraq and the same recognition that the UN was incapable of positive action caught most of the world off guard. Bush kept telling them that America would "go it" alone-----they didn't believe him. They have been embarrassed and exposed as self serving incompetents instead of statesmen serving the global community.

Adrian does it really matter who does the "Tilting" as long as the result is positive even if it is less than what we sought initially.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 10:22 am
Yeah, it does matter. That's the whole point.

Did you ever consider that if a country can tilt one way, it can go the other way as well?

Quote:
You and others insist on using the politically correct terminology of "multilateralism" vs "unilateral". This to me is idealistic "mumbo jumbo" especially when making really critical "life or death" decisions. Why do you think a corporation has a "CEO"? One person making the final decision??? In some situations, making decision by committee is a slow but sure road to failure. The Bush administration recognition that something was very rotten in the failure of France, Russia and Germany to support us in "liberating" Iraq and the same recognition that the UN was incapable of positive action caught most of the world off guard. Bush kept telling them that America would "go it" alone-----they didn't believe him. They have been embarrassed and exposed as self serving incompetents instead of statesmen serving the global community.


You should perhaps consider changing your name to 'obfuscation.'

Multilateralism vs. unilateralism is not 'mumbo-jumbo' as you put it. It is a very real concept, and an easy one to understand - you don't go picking fights around the world without international support, as you can get in over your head. Which is what has happened to us, look how the US is calling for a mutlinational effort in Iraq these days.


http://uk.news.yahoo.com/040502/325/eso0n.html


These very leaders whgo you call 'self-serving incompetents' are now the people we are asking for help.

You say that decisive action is needed in a 'life or death situation.' I would like you to explain to me how Iraq represented a 'life or death' situation for America, seeing as they couldn't even attack their neighbors successfully with their forces. Otherwise we could have easily waited a few months.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 10:28 am
perception wrote:
Adrian

You and others insist on using the politically correct terminology of "multilateralism" vs "unilateral". This to me is idealistic "mumbo jumbo" especially when making really critical "life or death" decisions. Why do you think a corporation has a "CEO"? One person making the final decision??? In some situations, making decision by committee is a slow but sure road to failure. The Bush administration recognition that something was very rotten in the failure of France, Russia and Germany to support us in "liberating" Iraq and the same recognition that the UN was incapable of positive action caught most of the world off guard. Bush kept telling them that America would "go it" alone-----they didn't believe him. They have been embarrassed and exposed as self serving incompetents instead of statesmen serving the global community.


Adrian does it really matter who does the "Tilting" as long as the result is positive even if it is less than what we sought initially.


The article that starts your thread is very reasonable and would be hard to disagree with. IMO however, you get to this post and expose your intent for the same old same old....propping up bushinc.

Nice try though, and great article.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 10:44 am
Agreed: nice article, and yes, it does really matter who does the "Tilting".



Adrian wrote:
Why, the then leader of the USSR is even in there.

That's what I would term "multilateral tilting" and I support the concept.


I support this concept as well .... and Gorbachev is seen in Germany as THE main figure (for the falling of the USSR and) the unification (that's why everyone [from conservatives over right liberals and Social-Democrats to the Green] thought, he would spend the rest of his life here).
0 Replies
 
perception
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2004 11:16 am
Mr Stillwater wrote:
We haven't even begun to 'help' our Arab friends to democracy.....

Quote:
But security, although vital, is not enough to ensure stability. That requires reform. And while history provides plenty of examples of the dangers to absolutist regimes of attempting to reform, only that will ensure the long-term survival of the al-Saud.

As things stand, Saudi Arabia provides near laboratory conditions to incubate thousands of bin Ladens. The oil-dominated economy produces few jobs to employ a fast-growing, restless population. Neo-central planning inhibits investment, while getting Saudis into jobs now occupied by millions of foreigners raises costs because locals get paid, on average, three times more. School textbooks drip with religious bigotry, while technology exposes Saudis to the full blast of modernity. The stultifying control of the mosque and political grip of the security services underpin a bloated monarchy.


FT.com Opinion


Good point and an excellent link but please clarify exactly what you propose the US should do now. It would seem to me that all we can do is remain poised to take military intervention in the event the Saudi government requests our assistance.
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