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Interrogators from Guantanamo involved in Abu Ghraib.

 
 
dlowan
 
Reply Sat 29 May, 2004 01:52 am
Cuba Base Sent Its Interrogators to Iraqi Prison
By DOUGLAS JEHL and ANDREA ELLIOTT



Published: May 29, 2004


ASHINGTON, May 28 ? Interrogation experts from the American detention camp at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, were sent to Iraq last fall and played a major role in training American military intelligence teams at Abu Ghraib prison there, senior military officials said Friday.

The teams from Guantánamo Bay, which had operated there under directives allowing broad latitude in questioning "enemy combatants," played a central role at Abu Ghraib through December, the officials said, a time when the worst abuses of prisoners were taking place. Prisoners captured in Iraq, unlike those sent from Afghanistan to Guantánamo, were to be protected by the Geneva Conventions.

The teams were sent to Iraq for 90-day tours at the urging of Maj. Gen. Geoffrey D. Miller, then the head of detention operations at Guantánamo. General Miller was sent to Iraq last summer to recommend improvements in the intelligence gathering and detention operations there, a defense official said.

The involvement of the Guantánamo teams has not previously been disclosed, and military officials said it would be addressed in a major report on suspected abuses by military intelligence specialists that is being completed by Maj. Gen. George W. Fay.

The report by General Fay will be the second major chapter in the Army's examination of the prisoner abuses in Iraq. Military officials said he would determine whether tactics used by military interrogators at Guantánamo and in Afghanistan were wrongly applied in Iraq, including at Abu Ghraib.
Link to NYT article
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2004 06:22 am
deb

Read this one earlier too. They've moved Sanchez out, with the fib that it wasn't related to any of this. Pretty disgusting show all in all.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2004 06:55 am
Yes - some nasty - if not unespected stuff:

"But one member of the 377th Company said the fact that prisoners in Afghanistan had been labeled as "enemy combatants" not subject to the Geneva Conventions had contributed to an unhealthy attitude in the detention center.

"We were pretty much told that they were nobodies, that they were just enemy combatants," he said. "I think that giving them the distinction of soldier would have changed our attitudes toward them. A lot of it was based on racism, really. We called them hajis, and that psychology was really important.""

And:

"The involvement of the Guantánamo teams in Iraq marks the second major instance in which interrogation procedures at Abu Ghraib appear to have been modeled on those in place earlier in Guantánamo or in Afghanistan, at facilities where the United States had declared that the Geneva Conventions did not apply.

In Iraq, Bush administration officials have insisted that the provisions of the Geneva Conventions were "fully applicable" to all prisoners, whether they were prisoners of war or civilians waging an insurgency against the United States. But since the abuses at Abu Ghraib have become public, some American officers have acknowledged that there may have been confusion there about whether certain tactics used on prisoners ? including hooding, chaining, isolation and sleep deprivation ? required approval from the American command in Baghdad."
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2004 09:09 am
The abuse scandal has already died down in the eyes of the new audience so I doubt if much will be done other than a few bad apples being slapped on the hand and people like us kooki lefities harping on about it for years to come in vain. Kind of Ruby Ridge for the other side I guess.

(I think it was ruby ridge, that was before I started paying attention to new events and politics)
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2004 11:00 am
revel

They want it to die down. There's no reason we should assist them in getting what they want. Keep alert to odd news items on the matter, and post them here when you do bump into them.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 May, 2004 03:37 am
Quote:
Appoint a special counsel to investigate Geneva violations.
By Neal Katyal
Posted Friday, May 28, 2004, at 1:50 PM PT

In the past week, details have emerged of not only more prisoner abuse in Iraq, but also a concerted effort by the president's chief lawyer to try to insulate such abuse from domestic criminal investigation. A 2002 memorandum from White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales tells the president to refuse to apply the protection of the Geneva Conventions to detainees because Americans could be charged in domestic courts with war crimes. Now that photos and Army reports suggest that just such crimes have been committed, a criminal investigation is necessary. And because the administration's own memoranda reveal that it tried to adopt policies to frustrate precisely such prosecutions, the attorney general must now appoint an outside prosecutor to investigate whether war crimes actually occurred...

...here, clear evidence exists that the White House has been engaged in a deliberate and secret attempt to insulate Americans from criminal liability despite laws enacted by the United States Congress designed to confer precisely that liability.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2101457/
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 May, 2004 03:51 am
Quote:
UK troops investigated over deaths of 10 civilians

The Government has officially admitted for the first time that the Army is investigating the deaths of 10 Iraqi civilians from "ill-treatment" at the hands of British soldiers.

The new figure, slipped out in a written answer as MPs left Westminster for a two-week break, suggests the level of abuse of civilians by British forces has been greater than previously thought.

However, opposition MPs are increasingly critical of the MoD's handling of these cases after the Government's lawyers ordered ministers not to release further details. The MoD claims giving out names and causes of death could prejudice investigations and potential prosecutions.[/[/color]quote]http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=526371

Does that last paragraph sound at all familiar?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 May, 2004 04:11 am
Quote:
Several U.S. guards allege they witnessed military intelligence operatives encouraging the abuse of Iraqi prison inmates at four prisons other than Abu Ghraib, investigative documents show.

Court transcripts and Army investigator interviews provide the broadest view of evidence that abuses, from forcing inmates to stand in hoods in 120-degree heat to punching them, occurred at a Marine detention camp and three Army prison sites in Iraq besides Abu Ghraib.

http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2004/05/29/intel_agents/index_np.html
0 Replies
 
fairandbalanced
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 May, 2004 04:00 am
dlowan ,

Read this article from the Guardian. Here is an excerpt from the article.

Article's Link

Quote:
Many of the prisoners abused at the Abu Ghraib prison were innocent Iraqis picked up at random by US troops, and incarcerated by under-qualified intelligence officers, a former US interrogator from the notorious jail told the Guardian.

Torin Nelson, who served as a military intelligence officer at Guantánamo Bay before moving to Abu Ghraib as a private contractor last year, blamed the abuses on a failure of command in US military intelligence and an over-reliance on private firms. He alleged that those companies were so anxious to meet the demand for their services that they sent "cooks and truck drivers" to work as interrogators.

"Military intelligence operations need to drastically change in order for something like this not to happen again," Mr Nelson said. He spoke to the Guardian in a series of interviews by phone and email.

He claimed that "many of the detainees at the prison are actually innocent of any acts against the coalition and are being held until the bureaucracy there can go through their cases and verify their need to be released."

"One case in point is a detainee whom I recommended for release and months later was still sitting in the same tent with no change in his status."

Mr Nelson said that the same systemic problems were also responsible for large numbers of Afghans being mistakenly swept into Guantánamo Bay. He estimated that "30-40%" of the inmates at the controversial prison camp had no connection to terrorism.

"There are people who should never have been sent over there. I was involved in the process of reviewing people for possible release and I can say definitely that they should have been released and released a lot sooner," he said.

The former commander of the Guantánamo Bay Camp, Major General Geoffrey Miller, was transferred to Iraq a month ago to overhaul the prison system there, although he has been criticised for his recommendations last year that US prison guards in Iraq help "set the conditions" for interrogations by softening up detainees.

Such allegations have been made before by victims' families and human rights groups but Mr Nelson's story represents the first insider's account by an American interrogator. It amounts to an indictment of a system gone awry, and contradicts claims by the White House and the Pentagon that Abu Ghraib does not represent a systemic problem.

Mr Nelson denies any involvement in the physical and sexual abuse of Iraqis at Abu Ghraib, and is listed in the official military report into the scandal as a witness rather than a suspect. He says he resigned from his job in February in fear for his life, because Abu Ghraib was coming under increasing attack by Iraqi insurgents, and because of his disillusion in the military leadership there. He is now working for a private contractor - but not as an interrogator - in another country that is part of the US "global war on terrorism". He did not want his whereabouts published.

Mr Nelson said he had come forward to speak now because he believed that military intelligence was seeking to blame the Abu Ghraib scandal on a handful of soldiers to divert attention away from ingrained problems in the military detention and interrogation system.

As a witness in an ongoing investigation, Mr Nelson said he could not talk about the abuses of specific prisoners at Abu Ghraib, but he said the nature of the detention system makes the imprisonment and abuse of innocent people all but inevitable.

"A unit goes out on a raid and they have a target and the target is not available; they just grab anybody because that was their job," Mr Nelson said, referring to counter-insurgency operations in Iraq. "The troops are under a lot of stress and they don't know one guy from the next. They're not cultural experts. All they want is to count down the days and hopefully go home. They take it out on the nearest person they can't understand."

"I've read reports from capturing units where the capturing unit wrote, "the target was not at home. The neighbour came out to see what was going on and we grabbed him," he said.

According to Mr Nelson's account, the victims' very innocence made them more likely to be abused, because interrogators refused to believe they could have been picked up on such arbitrary grounds.

"Now, whether the detainees are put into the general intelligence holding area, where they rot for a few months until final release, or if they are placed in solitary confinement because their story seems unbelievable is completely in the hands of the interrogator's opinion," he said. "It is in solitary that the abuses can be committed. So, in theory it is in fact very possible that purely innocent Iraqis could be placed in an environment where they could be brutalised, abused, "softened up" or even killed."

"At Abu Ghraib there were plenty of detainees talking or wanting to talk, but the leadership was focused on the "hard" targets of high-value," Mr Nelson said. "This was mainly because the leadership was almost completely focused on getting the highest ranking Ba'ath party members still in hiding. And many of the interrogators were anxious to "go after" the difficult eggs. They wanted to be the one interrogator who broke the linking detainee and found such and such high value target. They weren't interested in going through the less glamorous work of sifting through the chaff to get to the kernels of truth from the willing detainees, they were interested in "breaking" the tough targets."

Much of the problem lay in the quality of US interrogators, Mr Nelson said, explaining that only the youngest and least experienced intelligence officers actually question detainees.

"Once you get up to a level of NCO [non commissioned officer] or warrant officer you generally get moved into administration. You are taken out of working as an interrogator," he said.

As the number of suspects sucked into the system exploded, the Pentagon came to rely increasingly on interrogators from private contractors to question them. Mr Nelson was one of a team of roughly 30 in Abu Ghraib employed by a Virginia-based firm, CACI International. He believes his decade of experience in military intelligence made him well-qualified to do the job, but he had growing doubts about his colleagues.

"I'd say about of the contractors that it's kind of a hit or miss. They're under so much pressure to fill slots quickly ... They penalise contracting companies if they can't fill slots on time and it looks bad on companies' records," Mr Nelson said. As a result, he added, the quality of CACI's interrogators dropped sharply as demand rose.

CACI International did not respond to a request for comment on Mr Nelson's account. The firm has told other reporters that it has not been contacted by military investigators about the work of its employees at Abu Ghraib. Its recruitment notices seeking interrogators state that the job "requires a top secret clearance" and note that the successful applicant would operate "under minimal supervision."

Mr Nelson worked at Guantánamo Bay as a senior interrogator attached to the Utah National Guard. He said that most of the interrogators there were military professionals, but that by the time he left in early 2003, private contractors had begun to arrive.

There is no evidence of abuses on the scale of Abu Ghraib being committed at Guantánamo Bay, but Mr Nelson said that like the Iraqi jail, it was packed with innocent people, who are only now being released.

"Mistakes were made and people who should never have been sent there ended up there, and it's taken this amount of time to get people to take the decision to get these people out of there," Mr Nelson said.

"All it takes is the signature of a low ranking NCO to send someone right around the world and have them locked up indefinitely but it takes the signature of the secretary of defence to let them go."

0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2004 09:43 am
sad...
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2004 12:41 pm
It's not just sad, it's morally reprhensible.

The sad thing is nothing is going to happen about it. Man, I get sick of this.

The worst part about this whole stupid administration is that it makes me ashamed to be on the same side as them... even if they are trying to do good things (doubtful) their methods are despicable.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2004 05:39 am
Quote:
Most appalling, when Mr. Baker told his story to a Kentucky reporter, the military lied in a disgraceful effort to undermine his credibility. ...
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/05/opinion/05KRIS.html
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2004 06:25 am
Not so VERY uncommon in these exercises - even when they know the person is on their side - we have had some nasty results from SAS exercises - but very serious injuries.

Scary indeed re what is happening in these military prisons....

Poor fella.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2004 06:55 am
deb

The poignant part of this for me was noted in the writer's sentences that I've colored. Denials from the military and the administration above them on these issues are simply not to be trusted.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2004 09:29 pm
http://www.able2know.com/craven/avatars/smiley_guy_big_grin.gif
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2004 09:30 pm
Sorry - just using one of my threads for a test. I love that weird li'l smiler.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2004 09:44 pm
Dlowan, that is the only one of Craven's avatars I don't like...
'scuse me folks, back to listening.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2004 09:48 pm
'Tis powerful weird.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2004 09:49 pm
Kinda captures an aspect of Craven's Cravenness rather well, I feel.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2004 09:50 pm
I mean his essence, not the literal meaning of craven, by the way!
0 Replies
 
 

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