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Thu 27 May, 2004 04:25 pm
Olympic soccer qualifying tournament (also European U21 championship) started today in Germany...
First game - Serbia vs. Croatia
Well, that was pleasant experience...
Serbian supporters chanting:
"Ubi, zakolji, da Hrvat ne postoji!" (Kill, slaughter, exterminate Croats)
Croatian supporters chanting:
"Ubij, ubij, ubij Srbina!" (Kill, kill, kill a Serb)
Serbs:
"Ovcara, Skabrnja" (Ovcara - part of Vukovar, where Serbs slaughtered croatian civilians mainly taken from hospital, Skabrnja - croatian village in which entire population was slaughtered by Serbs)
Croats:
"Jasenovac, Jasenovac" (nazi camp in WW2 where many Serbs are killed)
Now, these are just worst examples, but what is going on with soccer? Why this sport attracts the biggest hooligans and idiots on planet? Serbs and Croats, unfortunately, are not exception. German fans almost killed french policeman on WC98 (and they were well known for chanting "Sieg Heil" when playing against eastern european teams during communistic era), British hooligans whenever they go to other country spend nice afternoon with beating everyone on their way, Slovakia was suspended for a game after all stadium was imitating monkeys when black english players were with a ball on Slovakia-England game...killings on Galatasaray-Leeds (Turkey vs England) game are known worldwide...
It really makes me sick. I was waiting for that game for days...biggest rivals, important game...and then idiots on both sides makes it simply discusting...
For sport fanatics - game was great, Serbia won 3-2, although tie would be most fair result cause both teams played really good....
Re: Soccer wars
MyOwnUsername wrote:...killings on Galatasaray-Leeds (Turkey vs England) game are known worldwide...
Not really. On the Neverending Word Association Game thread, some one wrote "Leeds", my inmediate thought was "Galatasaray", I posted it and it left every one dumbfounded. I had to provide a link and a lengthy explanation.
I think it was a Brazilian sociologist who wrote that some people want so much a victory for their soccer team on Sunday, to make up for all the grim frustration of their lives during the rest of the week.
well, yeah, you are right - I should write Galatasaray-Leeds is known worldwide except in USA.
No offense, it's matter of interests - when in "A to Z" game I started "worldwide famous athletes" many Americans mentioned people that almost nobody outside of USA or Canada ever heard of. Some old hockey goalies and stuff.
Reminds me on the war fought by El Salvador and Honduras in 1969.
(This conflict broke out shortly after the two nations had played three bitterly contested matches in the World Cup competition, but the real causes for the war lay elsewhere.)
LINK
yeah, thought about it later as well...although, as you said, real reasons lay elsewhere...
fbaezer - I completely understand what you mean by quoting this brazilian sociologist. And I can fully understand passion, emotions, everything connected with soccer, except hate. I was actually and really, fully sad when Mexico beat Croatia in WC2002. But I had no desire to find some Mexicans to beat them or to throw stones on them....
After having had some online reading: is sex a war too? :wink:
Quote:Sex OK, but don't get hurt
May 28, 2004
Croatia's Euro 2004 players will be allowed to see their wives and girlfriends after each Euro 2004 match in Portugal, but should refrain from any "acrobatic sex" in order to avoid possible injuries, the squad's doctor said yesterday.
"I am aware that 'normality' will not put anyone in jeopardy.
The most important thing is that it does not involve any 'excessive sex'," Zoran Bahtijarevic told local media.
Asked to define "excessive", Bahtijarevic replied "acrobatic sex" without elaborating.
Coach Otto Baric wants to minimise the risk of injuries, he explained.
Croatia finished third at France '98, but failed to qualify for Euro 2000. In Portugal Croatia will play in Group B alongside France, England and Switzerland. - Sapa-AFP
You forgot: Brazilian fans.
I once got off of a bus in front of Morumbi stadium in Brazil where a São Paulo game was being played. I was dressed from head to toe in Corinthians gear and hadn't known there was a Mercosul game going on.
So I walked through the plaza full of drum beating, flag waving fans and got many an evil eye.
When I got to the dark alley I ran into a large crowd of fans from the favela (shanty town) and they yelled "Look at that jacket! (it had their arch enemy logo)".
They came over and ripped it off of me after a brief fight. Thankfully they didn't notice that my pants also had the Corinthians logo.
Oh yes, Myownusername, I remember Mexico-Croatia. It started at 1:30 a.m, Mexican time. We were at the bar, chanting: "Ubi, zakolji..." ummm, errr... wait, no!... Not such stuff.
At the pre-olympic tournament, Mexican fans chanted: "Osama! Osama!" at the game against the USA. Just to make the gringos angry.
Indeed one Republican Senator wanted the US Department of State to make an official complain.
I remember other chants: "Lin-nek-ker Ex-o-cet!", yelled the English in their '86 game against Argentina. The Exocets were the British missiles launched against Argentinian ships in the Malvinas-Falklands War of '82.
Craven:
Local rivalry is often more prevalent than international xenophobia.
It is, at least, my case.
I don't care about the supporters of the Turks, the Argentinians, the Germans, the Chinese or the American gringos, but I dislike Americanistas (the followers of Club América) so profoundly...
None of my close friends is Americanista. In my mind, Americanismo is a defect, a liability.
I understand, being a Palmeiras fan is a character defect.
Funny picture of a guy pissing on the Club América logo was only alllowed for a short while by Angelfire.
I think many soccer fans as well don't understand the rules. They don't truly understand offside, and they don't get that touch posession rarely is an advantage for the team taking the throw in. Plus, the rules as defined by FIFA are rarely enforced, or should I say, are arbitrarily enforced. If the rules were applied as they are written, yellow and red cards would be flying around the field.
Plus Americanistas are sore losers, as the (very scared) players of Brazil's Sao Caetano found out:
cjhsa is right about the enforcement of the rules, the criteria of the referees varies a lot, and this breeds anger in the fans (not that fans don't know the rules, but they often bend their eyesight to favor their team).
BTW cjhsa, I hope at least one of your daughters makes the US team for the Olympics in 2012. They seem to be quite able in football.
cjhsa, another question. Have you heard of any mini "soccer war" amongst parents in children football?
My younger daughter is the stronger of the two, and more interested in the sport. I don't have any sense that she will be good enough to go that far, but you never know. That is up to her.
By the time 2012 rolls around she'll be 19, and hopefully I'm still around to watch her play.
Have I heard of it? Yes, and to some extent seen it (or felt the eyes in the back of my head - I'm a ref). An experienced ref instructor told me about a full on fight between rival parents that included players. His advice - try to protect the players but don't touch anyone, at least on purpose. Use a sharp blast of the whistle close to their ear to get their attention.
Craven de Kere wrote:So I walked through the plaza full of drum beating, flag waving fans and got many an evil eye.
When I got to the dark alley I ran into a large crowd of fans from the favela (shanty town) and they yelled "Look at that jacket! (it had their arch enemy logo)".
They came over and ripped it off of me after a brief fight. Thankfully they didn't notice that my pants also had the Corinthians logo.
You walked right through a plaza of "enemy" soccer supporters and was inflicted no physical harm whatsoever until you ended up in a dark alley?!
Brazilian fans really
are benevolent softies ... :wink:
From my experience as soccer dad, it gets worse with age, like the equivalent of the varsity-high school teams, because there is often some ideological, religious or class distintion among teams (or racial, in the US) and some parents aren't taught to behave.
In the league my sons used to play in, refs can actually show a red card to a parent, and expell him/her (well, it's always a him) from the premises for the duration of the game.
Yep, I can do that. Then the problem becomes, how do I get to my car after the game?
nimh wrote:
You walked right through a plaza of "enemy" soccer supporters and was inflicted no physical harm whatsoever until you ended up in a dark alley?!
Brazilian fans really are benevolent softies ... :wink:
Well it was a Mercosul game, as a new league it was one of the "soft" games where more dads with kids go to the game because it will not be that crowded.
Got lots of dirtly looks going through the organized fan clubs but nothin happened till I met up with the favela crowd.
fbaezer wrote:Oh yes, Myownusername, I remember Mexico-Croatia. It started at 1:30 a.m, Mexican time. We were at the bar, chanting: "Ubi, zakolji..." ummm, errr... wait, no!... Not such stuff.
At the pre-olympic tournament, Mexican fans chanted: "Osama! Osama!" at the game against the USA. Just to make the gringos angry.
Indeed one Republican Senator wanted the US Department of State to make an official complain.
I remember other chants: "Lin-nek-ker Ex-o-cet!", yelled the English in their '86 game against Argentina. The Exocets were the British missiles launched against Argentinian ships in the Malvinas-Falklands War of '82.
And in Holland, Ajax Amsterdam fans are greeted with "Jews! Jews! Jews!" chants.
Oddly, as I was noting just the other day on the WMYST thread (after I'd gone to see the celebration of my local FC's Cup victory), they've happily adopted the 'term of abuse' in pride themselves, in spite of there being nary a Jew among them - it's a postmodern world, soccer is:
nimh wrote:Doesnt mean the FC (supporters) aint with the times, tho. [..] the FC's supporters have, very postmodern, long picked up their cues from their Italian counterparts (much like the previous generation picked up theirs from the British "hooligans") - and so the chants go "Forza Utrecht!" and "Champione, Champione!" (who said Europe wasn't getting united? ).
Oh, and "Kanker Joden en PSV" of course - "Cancer Jews and PSV", that is - the "Jews" being rival FC Ajax Amsterdam (PSV is just PSV).
(In another postmodern trick, the supporters of Ajax now proudly call themselves "Jews" too, actually waving Israeli flags during games and everything - even though there isn't, of course, a single Jew among them, post-WW2.)
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