17
   

Vaping is all the rage!!

 
 
Germlat
 
  1  
Sun 28 Sep, 2014 04:49 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:

The neat thing is that red meat is less bad than it was considered for many years.
Excess probably not a great idea, but some is fine according to many (many what, many experts) now.

Problem for me is that my body produces plenty of cholesterol on it's own...thanks to my genetics Sad I have no business consuming anymore through my diet. My Endo suggested I become vegan. I was for a few years..I guess I'll have to do it again. Maybe with a little cheating here and there.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Sun 28 Sep, 2014 04:55 pm
@Germlat,
Germlat wrote:

I'm still waiting for you to prove to me that I desire to take away your rights. Maybe you have me confused with another poster. I think people are risk takers in different ways.

"SAFETY!" Is the #1 excuse used for telling other people what to do and often also removing our freedom to live according to our will. If you are not using your reasoning to that end then great.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Sun 28 Sep, 2014 05:00 pm
@Germlat,
Was your cholesterol lower then, as a vegan? (none of my business, of course, and maybe it wasn't tested). I've read/heard from docs over the years various pros and cons re ability to reduce cholesterol via diet. Mine seemed to change once I started eating mostly mediterranean type food - not to reduce cholesterol, but because I like it. It didn't change so much in total number but the good one rather grandly superceded the bad. Knock on wood.


OK, back to vaping...
Germlat
 
  1  
Sun 28 Sep, 2014 05:13 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:

Was your cholesterol lower then, as a vegan? (none of my business, of course, and maybe it wasn't tested). I've read/heard from docs over the years various pros and cons re ability to reduce cholesterol via diet. Mine seemed to change once I started eating mostly mediterranean type food - not to reduce cholesterol, but because I like it. It didn't change so much in total number but the good one rather grandly superceded the bad. Knock on wood.

Yes much lower...actually normal. I like many types of food. I particularly enjoy Japanese (Sashimi in particular ) which is healthy but--I can't imagine making it myself. I also like vegetarian Indian food...if I had a chef make it for me daily my cholesterol would be fine. My very favorite is Italian . My carbohydrate metabolism sucks though. I fry nothing and only eat pasta/bread twice weekly. Ok...that was probably TMI.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Sun 28 Sep, 2014 05:16 pm
@Germlat,
No, not too much - we're similar in tastes, and I'm way down on bread and pasta, but not entirely.
0 Replies
 
Germlat
 
  3  
Sun 28 Sep, 2014 05:33 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Germlat wrote:

I'm still waiting for you to prove to me that I desire to take away your rights. Maybe you have me confused with another poster. I think people are risk takers in different ways.

"SAFETY!" Is the #1 excuse used for telling other people what to do and often also removing our freedom to live according to our will. If you are not using your reasoning to that end then great.

I don't feel I owe anyone silence. I may think there's a difference between stating my opinion and making it law. For example, I think gambling is unwise. The odds are usually in favor of the house...people lose the shirt off their back. but--I wouldn't vote to make it illegal...but I'll still state my opinion.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Mon 29 Sep, 2014 01:25 am
@Germlat,
Pay not attention to Hawkeye, he's the biggest drama queen on A2K, always tilting at imaginary windmills. It's all rather sad and pathetic.
0 Replies
 
luismtzzz
 
  2  
Mon 29 Sep, 2014 04:40 pm
@hawkeye10,
You honestly seem very beligerant about having smoking questoned as something bad for your health. I insist i have nothing against people who smoke if the respect those people who choosed not to do so. There are multiple studies that show the correlation between nicotine and heatlh issues. The same happens with alcohol and caffeine. I personally love wine and i am perfectly aware of the risks.

If you want to smoke just try not to cause problems to you family and peers with second hand smoke and be sure to have a good health insurance so you wonpt destroy your family´s financial security when a cathastrofic disease falls over you.

You are right nicotine do has a few beneficial effects. But as always dosis creates a poison. The same happened with digitalis plant extract. At normal dosis it ca kill a grown man but at small concentration it is called digoxine and used to treat cardiac diseases.

BTW here are some articles. I can´t belive how much esceptisim the risks of smoking still cause.


Quote:
J Cardiovasc Pharmacol. 2006 Mar;47(3):348-58.
Nicotine effect on cardiovascular system and ion channels.
Hanna ST.
Author information Department of Physiology, University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada. [email protected]
Abstract
Smoking is a leading cause of cardiovascular disease, hypertension, myocardial infarction, and stroke. Nicotine is one of the components of cigarette smoke. Nicotine effects on the cardiovascular system reflect the activity of the nicotine receptors centrally and on peripheral autonomic ganglia. It has been found that cigarette smoke extract-induced contraction of porcine coronary arteries is related to superoxide anion-mediated degradation of nitric oxide. Treatment of rabbit aortas with an oxygen free radicals scavenger attenuated cigarette smoke impairment of arterial relaxation. Treatment of smokers with vitamin C, an antioxidant, improved impaired endothelium-dependent reactivity of large peripheral arteries. Thus it appears that chronic smoking and acute exposure to cigarette smoke extract may alter endothelium-dependent reactivity via the production of oxygen derived free radicals. This review discusses the effects of nicotine on resistance arterioles, compliance arteries, smooth muscle cells, and ion channels in the cardiovascular system. We discuss studies performed on humans, nicotine-exposed animals, and cell cultures yielding varying and inconsistent results that may be due to differences in experimental design, species, and the dose of exposure. Nicotine exposure appears to induce a combination of free radical production, vascular wall adhesion, and a reduction of fibrinolytic activity in the plasma.


Here is the complete article

http://journals.lww.com/cardiovascularpharm/fulltext/2006/03000/nicotine_effect_on_cardiovascular_system_and_ion.3.aspx

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Quote:
Nature Medicine 7, 833 - 839 (2001)
doi:10.1038/89961

Nicotine stimulates angiogenesis and promotes tumor growth and atherosclerosis

Christopher Heeschen1, James J. Jang1, Michael Weis1, Anjali Pathak1, Shuichiro Kaji1, Robert S. Hu1, Philip S. Tsao1, Frances L. Johnson1 & John P. Cooke1

AbstractWe provide anatomic and functional evidence that nicotine induces angiogenesis. We also show that nicotine accelerates the growth of tumor and atheroma in association with increased neovascularization. Nicotine increased endothelial-cell growth and tube formation in vitro, and accelerated fibrovascular growth in vivo. In a mouse model of hind-limb ischemia, nicotine increased capillary and collateral growth, and enhanced tissue perfusion. In mouse models of lung cancer and atherosclerosis, we found that nicotine enhanced lesion growth in association with an increase in lesion vascularity. These effects of nicotine were mediated through nicotinic acetylcholine receptors at nicotine concentrations that are pathophysiologically relevant. The endothelial production of nitric oxide, prostacyclin and vascular endothelial growth factor might have a role in these effects.


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

hawkeye10
 
  1  
Mon 29 Sep, 2014 04:59 pm
@luismtzzz,
Quote:
I can´t belive how much esceptisim the risks of smoking still cause.


I gather you have not been paying attention to how corrupt and incompetent science has become in matters that are political. Science is routinely taken over by interests other than truth.

The elite dont want us to smoke, and the science says we should not smoke. Predictable. But the numbers dont add up. For instance that smoking takes 10 years off your life, but if you stop before age 40 it does not hurt you hardly at all and most of the cancers happen late in life when we were probably going to die of something else anyways.

There is no way the 10 years cost assertion can be true. It is another scare tactic (AKA lie) from the elite generated by the propaganda of the societally messaging systems that they control.

The government is facing the same problem that all too many American parents have....when the subjects find out that you routinely lie on on subjects then you are assumed to be dishonest about everything. Everything you say deserves to be ignored.
luismtzzz
 
  2  
Mon 29 Sep, 2014 05:19 pm
@hawkeye10,
So you are a conspiracionist type fellow?

As a doctor i will say to you the same i tell to my patients. Smoking has a risk, as anything you drink or eat. The problem is the quantity. No one is telling you not to smoke. You can do so. Just be well aware of the risks it implies. The dangers of smoking are very very real. As well as Edgar had talked about knowing people who got sick because of smoking i can relate to many cases that i had seen on my years working as a primay care giver and in emerncy wards at a big city hospital.

The studies are made by non biased repescted investogators in world wide accredited medical journals that are respected by the medical community. Restrospective studies about the risks of smoking can be performed everywhere and very easily that is why there is no doubt that smoking is bad. As a medical students we have done as part of our stadistical epidemiolgy training.

We must trust our scientifical resurces and hear what the studies say because is the only way to provide appropiate health care. If you do not want to belive it, fine. Just please have a good health care insurrance and avoid smoking in enclosed places, and of course not in the presence of children.

Sadly i had know many cases of patients that never belived that they had diabetes, because "i never had any pain". They understand they mistake when they lose their first finger or a foot. The fact that there is no pain does not implies that smoking isn´t bad. I understand that it feels good, that inhaling that smoke makes you body relax, calms the aniety, helps you poop, and soothes your nerves. But as with alcohol and caffeine it has systemic effects that are well proved.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  2  
Tue 30 Sep, 2014 12:04 am
I'll give up my e-cig when they pry my cold dead lungs from around it.

I still manage about 1/2 a pack of the real thing per day, though. Morning coffee and evening nightcap(s) are my triggers. That and not particularly giving that much of a **** how long I live.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Tue 30 Sep, 2014 12:08 am
@FBM,
Quote:
I still manage about 1/2 a pack of the real thing per day, though. Morning coffee and evening nightcap(s) are my triggers. That and not particularly giving that much of a **** how long I live


A fellow radical!

It has been years since I met a cig smoker who refused to recite the script of apology for their alleged evil.
roger
 
  1  
Tue 30 Sep, 2014 01:09 am
@FBM,
Same here, more or less.

Good to see you're still around, too.
BruceGarcia
 
  1  
Tue 30 Sep, 2014 02:20 am
Yeah, agreed with you. People think that it is good to use vaping in the place of traditional smoking, but I think it also has disadvantages.
FBM
 
  1  
Tue 30 Sep, 2014 03:20 am
@hawkeye10,
I'm trying to think of something that I do to myself that I might apologize to someone else for...hmmm...nope, I got nuthin'.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Tue 30 Sep, 2014 03:21 am
@roger,
Still here. Mostly lurking, is all.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Tue 30 Sep, 2014 03:26 am
@BruceGarcia,
BruceGarcia wrote:

Yeah, agreed with you. People think that it is good to use vaping in the place of traditional smoking, but I think it also has disadvantages.


Two of my friends successfully used vaping to wean completely off nicotine. But they had other motives. They both got married and had a baby. I've dodged both of those bullets so far. My other friends and I who vape don't have any intention of quitting altogether, we just want to cut down on the carcinogens they're getting from the leaf. It's about calculating our daily dose of poison, I guess.
Germlat
 
  1  
Tue 30 Sep, 2014 05:49 am
@FBM,
FBM wrote:

BruceGarcia wrote:

Yeah, agreed with you. People think that it is good to use vaping in the place of traditional smoking, but I think it also has disadvantages.


Two of my friends successfully used vaping to wean completely off nicotine. But they had other motives. They both got married and had a baby. I've dodged both of those bullets so far. My other friends and I who vape don't have any intention of quitting altogether, we just want to cut down on the carcinogens they're getting from the leaf. It's about calculating our daily dose of poison, I guess.

Vapes contain other chemicals. We have no conclusive research to prove they are harmless to the lungs. Vapes contain nicotine which can cause problems with blood circulation (stroke, heart attack). I'm not trying to convince anyone to not smoke or vape. I'm simply amazed that people believe it to be harmless.
FBM
 
  1  
Tue 30 Sep, 2014 06:03 am
@Germlat,
I never said it was harmless. I'm just pretty confident, based on the totality of what I've read about it so far, that it's a helluva lot less harmful than leaf, and there are significant reports of nicotine having some beneficial aspects, viz Alzheimer's Disease. I'm pretty convinced that I'm going to die of old age or something else long before I die of vaping. I could be wrong, of course, but my current position is based on currently available data.
Germlat
 
  2  
Tue 30 Sep, 2014 01:38 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:

I never said it was harmless. I'm just pretty confident, based on the totality of what I've read about it so far, that it's a helluva lot less harmful than leaf, and there are significant reports of nicotine having some beneficial aspects, viz Alzheimer's Disease. I'm pretty convinced that I'm going to die of old age or something else long before I die of vaping. I could be wrong, of course, but my current position is based on currently available data.
. I can't understand that you think it's harmless without evidence to the contrary. There's also much evidence nicotine is a powerful vasoconstrictor. Women who are on the pill (reproductive age) know it's a no-no...unless they want a stroke. Learn a little will you?!
 

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