17
   

Vaping is all the rage!!

 
 
FBM
 
  1  
Sun 9 Nov, 2014 07:52 pm
@roger,
That's the thing, though, it's easy to find both positive and negative reports. I'm suspending judgement until the pros get it sorted out.
roger
 
  2  
Sun 9 Nov, 2014 08:08 pm
@FBM,
Well, with the exception of diacetyl and other diketones I briefly discussed with Izzythepush, I am already satisfied that vaping is many times less hazardous than smoking. There are problems, but the goal is harm reduction, not total safety.
FBM
 
  1  
Sun 9 Nov, 2014 08:22 pm
@roger,
Yeah, same here. I don't expect it to be 100% safe and certainly not outright healthy. But I need some scientific data that says how harmful it is. For all I know so far, it may have zero impact on a person's lifespan. Or it may kill us all in a few years. Who knows?
Germlat
 
  0  
Mon 10 Nov, 2014 03:11 pm
@FBM,
Can any of you explain the nano particles and their effect or the effects on the immune system?
Germlat
 
  0  
Mon 10 Nov, 2014 03:14 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:

I could probably find you a dozen or more legitimate sources of negative information. I'm afraid I'm just not in the business of feeding someone's little vendetta.

Define legitimate.. Also who is harboring an inch of vendetta, who it is that ....and why you think so...please provide proof.
0 Replies
 
Germlat
 
  0  
Mon 10 Nov, 2014 03:32 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:

The implications of what?

Regarding flavors, the question should be why they are limited, especially considering Nicorette gum comes with five http://www.nicorette.com/nicorette-gum/ flavors.


If you can't tell the difference between the respitory and digestive tract...I doubt you understand what you're reading....
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Mon 10 Nov, 2014 07:17 pm
@Germlat,
Germlat wrote:

Can any of you explain the nano particles and their effect or the effects on the immune system?


I will be able to once the research conclusively describes it. I won't pretend to know before the researchers know.
roger
 
  2  
Mon 10 Nov, 2014 08:06 pm
@FBM,
Hard to explain the effects of something in a vapor that doesn't exist, isn't it.

Nano particles are much smaller than smoke particles, and smoke particles are way smaller than the droplets in the vape. The size of the particles is part of the explanation for the minimal adsorption of nicotine in the lungs. The majority of what is adsorbed is by way of the mucus membranes in the mouth, nose, and sinuses. The nicotine in tobacco smoke adsorbed by the lungs crosses the blood/brain barrier in a few seconds; that from the mucus membranes takes around twenty minutes.

This pretty much explains why burning tobacco is so much more satisfying in a nicotine deprived state like early morning. It enters the bloodstream ever so much faster than that which is derived from the mucus membranes.

Honestly, I'm about to collapse the fount of misinformation that this thread is. Any links that don't support the thesis are disparaged. The ones that do support it are - well, missing.
FBM
 
  3  
Mon 10 Nov, 2014 08:18 pm
@roger,
Interesting stuff here:

http://www.ecigarette-research.com/web/index.php/2013-04-07-09-50-07/2013/89-metals-and-nanoparticles-in-e-cigarettes-commentary
roger
 
  2  
Mon 10 Nov, 2014 09:02 pm
@FBM,
Good find! Dr Konstantinos Farsalinos is well known and respected. Do you recall the brief discussion with IzzythePush somewhere in this thread on Diacetyl? In one project, he announced that he had found the stuff in 70% of the liquids tested. The concentrations varied widely, and I don't really know the methodology. Were the samples all of suspect flavors, and were they from a number of manufacturers? I'll surely check that out one of these days.

I would never vape anything with any flavor associated with Diacetyl, nor any of the related diketones. By the way, I also wouldn't use anything that had the flavor dissolved in any kind of oil.

Actually, I use unflavored at 36 mg/ml, which works out to be 3.6%. I also favor 70%pg and 30% vg base, for various reasons.
FBM
 
  2  
Mon 10 Nov, 2014 09:52 pm
@roger,
No, I didn't see that exchange with Izzy, but I'll go back and try to find it. You've got me thinking that I need to look more closely at the juice I use. I haven't scrutinized it very closely. I just know that I usually get 12~16mg/ml.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Mon 10 Nov, 2014 11:04 pm
Buttloads of clinical research here, too:

http://casaa.org/Clinical_Research.html

For example, from January 2014: http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2458/14/18/abstract

Quote:
Abstract
Background
Electronic cigarettes (e-cigarettes) are generally recognized as a safer alternative to combusted tobacco products, but there are conflicting claims about the degree to which these products warrant concern for the health of the vapers (e-cigarette users). This paper reviews available data on chemistry of aerosols and liquids of electronic cigarettes and compares modeled exposure of vapers with occupational safety standards.

Methods
Both peer-reviewed and “grey” literature were accessed and more than 9,000 observations of highly variable quality were extracted. Comparisons to the most universally recognized workplace exposure standards, Threshold Limit Values (TLVs), were conducted under “worst case” assumptions about both chemical content of aerosol and liquids as well as behavior of vapers.

Results
There was no evidence of potential for exposures of e-cigarette users to contaminants that are associated with risk to health at a level that would warrant attention if it were an involuntary workplace exposures. The vast majority of predicted exposures are < <1% of TLV. Predicted exposures to acrolein and formaldehyde are typically <5% TLV. Considering exposure to the aerosol as a mixture of contaminants did not indicate that exceeding half of TLV for mixtures was plausible. Only exposures to the declared major ingredients -- propylene glycol and glycerin -- warrant attention because of precautionary nature of TLVs for exposures to hydrocarbons with no established toxicity.

Conclusions
Current state of knowledge about chemistry of liquids and aerosols associated with electronic cigarettes indicates that there is no evidence that vaping produces inhalable exposures to contaminants of the aerosol that would warrant health concerns by the standards that are used to ensure safety of workplaces. However, the aerosol generated during vaping as a whole (contaminants plus declared ingredients) creates personal exposures that would justify surveillance of health among exposed persons in conjunction with investigation of means to keep any adverse health effects as low as reasonably achievable. Exposures of bystanders are likely to be orders of magnitude less, and thus pose no apparent concern.
roger
 
  1  
Mon 10 Nov, 2014 11:40 pm
@FBM,
Hey, you're good at this stuff. I think I'll stick around, after all.

That's more positive reporting, but still, I'll continue avoiding any possibility of diacetyl.

Oh, I am a member of CASAA. It's free, though I do send in checks at random intervals. I'm starting to feel a little overdue, in fact.
FBM
 
  1  
Mon 10 Nov, 2014 11:47 pm
@roger,
Cool. I may join it, too. Yeah, it's positive reporting, but I'm not ignoring the negative reports. They're already being (over)represented by someone else. I'm just demonstrating that there is nothing like a consensus yet.
0 Replies
 
LeilaniWilson
 
  1  
Mon 10 Nov, 2014 11:47 pm
@FBM,
It's true that there's no easy way to answer "how". But I can sense and feel that you're really willing to forget about the smoking thing and that's a good start already. Try to be more active too my friend. It might help you like engaging yourself to different sports like what I did!
FBM
 
  1  
Mon 10 Nov, 2014 11:49 pm
@roger,
I just checked a list of flavors that contain diacetyl. I only use tobacco flavor, and it doesn't. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  2  
Mon 10 Nov, 2014 11:52 pm
@LeilaniWilson,
I'm definitely interested in making analog smoking a thing of the past for myself, though I admit that I'm not in a particular hurry about it.

I do exercise, by the way. Usually 6 nights a week of weightlifting with the occasional treadmill time. I had a bad cold last week, but I'll go back to the gym tonight.
roger
 
  1  
Tue 11 Nov, 2014 12:14 am
@FBM,
Treadmill!? Find the right dictionary and that's listed as a synonym for tedium.
FBM
 
  1  
Tue 11 Nov, 2014 12:16 am
@roger,
Tell me about it. That's why it's only occasional. If there's a baseball game on, I can endure it, but imagine trying to watch a regular TV program in Korean while on a treadmill. 5 minutes, max, and that's only if there's a hot chick starring.
roger
 
  1  
Tue 11 Nov, 2014 12:17 am
@FBM,
Keep the chick; nix the mill.
 

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