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America Is An Empire

 
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 May, 2004 04:40 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

None of the American military bases around the world are in a country without the free acceptance of the sovereign government of that country.


Cuba? Panama?


I may be mistaken (and if so, I'm sure you correct me) but I thought the US military withdrew from Panama in 1999. Did I miss something between then and now?

As for Gitmo, it would be quibbling to cite that it is leased by the US from Cuba according to the terms of a treaty which requires both parties to approve of terminating the lease. You've found an exception to my statement on US military bases.

Considering the proximity of Cuba to the US, and the decades long history of its government's animosity for America (culminating in the allowance of Russian nuclear missile bases back in the 60's), whatever strategic military value Gitmo provides the US, it is far more in relation to protection of the homeland than any international colonies.

This one base hardly an Empire makes.

In any case, it is interesting that Castro has not made more of Gitmo than he has. One would think he could have fairly easily have rallied the Third World through the United Nations to constantly hound the US to leave Cuba. And yet he hasn't. Does anyone know why this might be so?
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 May, 2004 04:47 pm
Scared of being invaded by the US again?

Mind you the Bay of Pigs was pretty pathetic - but still, real people died.
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Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 May, 2004 05:01 pm
Craven de Kere wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
I'm not sure why it is necessary to strech or revise the definition of Empire so that it includes America.


Modern empires will not be territorial. For the word to continue to have modern-day meaning it needs to evolve.

These days, power is not measured in territory. European colonialism taught us that the benefits are not territorial but rather of influence.

America's empire takes this lesson to heart, creating an empire of influence and power that is unparelleled in history.

Not wanting to call it an empire is semantics. Quite frankly the word is, well, jsut a word.

Ultimately there is a truth, and that is that there has not ever in hostory been a power and a global control that approaches what the USA has today.

What you want to call it is of secondary importance to that acknowledgement.


I'm afraid I disagree with the contention that any debate on whether or not America is an Empire is simply semantics.

There is a huge difference between an Empire based on influence and one based on territorial control. European colonialism may have taught us the benefits of influence over control, but not so other would be Empire builders.

The possibility of a modern Empire being based on territorial conquest has not been completely eliminated.

There are all sorts of examples of figurative uses of the term outside the sphere of geopolitics (Rupert Murdock's Publishing Empire, FDR the Imperial President), but how many within?

It is, at best, disingenuous for some to argue that a modern version of the word applies to the US but to than condemn an American Empire based on its historical definition.

I hasten to add Craven that you have not done so, but others have.
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 May, 2004 05:02 pm
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
In any case, it is interesting that Castro has not made more of Gitmo than he has. One would think he could have fairly easily have rallied the Third World through the United Nations to constantly hound the US to leave Cuba. And yet he hasn't. Does anyone know why this might be so?


One common line of reasoning on this is that relations are thawing and he doesn't want to change that.

He made no stink about the post 9/11 camps either.
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Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 May, 2004 05:06 pm
dlowan wrote:
Scared of being invaded by the US again?

Mind you the Bay of Pigs was pretty pathetic - but still, real people died.


George W Bush hasn't always been president. Jimmy Carter may not have capitulated to a Cuban campaign to pressure the US out of Gitmo, but I doubt the most severe critics of the US would have feared he might react with invasion.
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 May, 2004 05:06 pm
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
The possibility of a modern Empire being based on territorial conquest has not been completely eliminated.


While writing my post I'd thought of that and disconsidered it.

The possibility does exist and always will, but I think the probability has been reduced to a degree that makes a modern defintion of empire (economic and influence) meaningful.
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Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 May, 2004 05:09 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
Iraq?


Poor example.

Currently there is no sovereign government to approve of or denounce American military bases.
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Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 May, 2004 05:26 pm
Craven de Kere wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
The possibility of a modern Empire being based on territorial conquest has not been completely eliminated.


While writing my post I'd thought of that and disconsidered it.

The possibility does exist and always will, but I think the probability has been reduced to a degree that makes a modern defintion of empire (economic and influence) meaningful.


I don't mean to quibble, because we don't disagree on the applicability of a modern version of the term, nor, for that matter, do we disagree on the probability of a new territorial empire being built, but the historical context of the term can endure through the actions of would be emperors. I think it's arguable that Saddam had imperial designs, and he will not be the last of his kind.
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