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What if no religions are correct, but there still is a God?

Forums: Religion, God, World Peace, Unreligion, Athiesm
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InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2014 01:06 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:
"I have given you the freedom to follow your own conscience, but if you don't follow me I'll visit harrowing violence upon you."

Cognitively dissonant much?
Interesting insight.
Has no basis in truth, however. . . .
Human conscience is not perfect. We have no such freedom.

So, we don't follow our own consciences, because they're imperfect?

That's not congruent with your ideas of free will.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2014 01:27 pm
@One Eyed Mind,
One Eyed Mind wrote:

But I was responding to you, I'm guessing you were arguing his doctrine? I see. Seeing people argue the book can make one seem as if they are defending the book at times. Sometimes one must ask, is the book really that bad? Or is the people that turn it into a weapon that makes it so?

I don't think that the JW's regard the harrowing violence that they believe is promised in the book to be "bad," depending on how they define the word "bad." Yeah, you can think of it as a weapon. The very reason it was elaborated was to consolidate political power to the priests of the Yahweh cult in Palestine and then after it was morphed, throughout the world.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2014 03:02 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
"I have given you the freedom to follow your own conscience, but if you don't follow me I'll visit harrowing violence upon you."

Cognitively dissonant much?
neologist wrote:
Interesting insight.
Has no basis in truth, however. . . .
Human conscience is not perfect. We have no such freedom.
InfraBlue wrote:
So, we don't follow our own consciences, because they're imperfect?
To whom are you referring? JWs recognize the insufficiency of the human conscience. (Jeremiah 10:23) So, we are not 'free' to follow our conscience. We have free will to follow or not follow God's direction.
InfraBlue wrote:
That's not congruent with your ideas of free will.
Perhaps not congruent with your ideas. I can't help that.
One Eyed Mind
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2014 03:04 pm
@neologist,
Neo, a world of labels is a world that's unstable. Life is not about "Seeing" - it's not about "Believing"; it's about "Reflecting", and as you may know, when we look at our reflection, we either see "Me", which is a label, or "what looks like me", which is reflecting on the difference between your "self" and your "reflected self".
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2014 03:21 pm
@One Eyed Mind,
Nowadays, when I look in a mirror, I become frightened.
One Eyed Mind
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2014 03:30 pm
@neologist,
I stare my shadow archetype down.

Can you beat that psychical evaluation?
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2014 04:56 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:
InfraBlue wrote:
So, we don't follow our own consciences, because they're imperfect?
To whom are you referring? JWs recognize the insufficiency of the human conscience. (Jeremiah 10:23) So, we are not 'free' to follow our conscience. We have free will to follow or not follow God's direction.[/quote]
So, following or not following God's direction doesn't involve following our conscience?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2014 06:17 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
So, we don't follow our own consciences, because they're imperfect?
neologist wrote:
To whom are you referring? JWs recognize the insufficiency of the human conscience. (Jeremiah 10:23) So, we are not 'free' to follow our conscience. We have free will to follow or not follow God's direction.
InfraBlue wrote:
So, following or not following God's direction doesn't involve following our conscience?
Is there any way you could phrase a more convoluted question?

I have an answer. I think I'll wait until you gather your thoughts.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2014 08:50 pm
@neologist,
You're saying that we have the free will to follow or not follow God's direction, right?

If so, doesn't that free will involve following our conscience?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2014 09:11 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
You're saying that we have the free will to follow or not follow God's direction, right?

If so, doesn't that free will involve following our conscience?
When men were created, they were perfect. Their conscience was perfect. Then they chose to set their own standards. Now we have defective consciences, and can't rely on them exclusively, Quite a conundrum, actually, as humans search for guidance. Yet, we still have free will.
One Eyed Mind
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2014 09:12 pm
@neologist,
Please do not call the zero point "perfect", when it's the "unborn".

I do agree with the rest of your assessment, though.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2014 10:19 pm
@neologist,
Yeah, your conundrum is better called a circular argument.

So, is it that we can't employ our free will because of our defective consciences caused by our employment of our free will, or is it that we shouldn't employ our free will because of our defective consciences caused by our employment of our free will?
Smileyrius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2014 04:18 am
@InfraBlue,
Do you have free will Infra?
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2014 10:28 am
@Smileyrius,
Smileyrius wrote:

Do you have free will Infra?

Absolutely, in a highly circumscribed, nigh insignificant way.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2014 11:33 am
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
Yeah, your conundrum is better called a circular argument.

So, is it that we can't employ our free will because of our defective consciences caused by our employment of our free will, or is it that we shouldn't employ our free will because of our defective consciences caused by our employment of our free will?
You are the one running in circles.
We all have defective conscience. That should be a given.
We all have free will. If we hope to do what's right, we should exercise our free will, knowing that our conscience may mislead us. We will continue to make mistakes, however.
Smileyrius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2014 12:17 pm
@InfraBlue,
I guess Id raise the point that to have free will is not the same as to do what one wills. we all have an ounce of free will whether we are religious or not, but we place ourselves under an authority, adhering to the rules set by that governing body whoever that might be. If we prove ourselves unwilling to abide by the rules set out by that government we are likely to suffer consequences as per the law.
Laws and consequence do not negate freedom, they regulate it.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2014 01:42 pm
@neologist,
But according to you we're required to do what's right through the exercise of free will with a defective conscience that was obtained through the exercise of free will. How is that possible?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2014 02:33 pm
@InfraBlue,
I suppose it's a good thing that God is willing to forgive us, right?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2014 02:35 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

I suppose it's a good thing that God is willing to forgive us, right?



Yeah, if there is a god...and if the god is willing to forgive us...and if there is anything that requires "forgiveness."

Yeah.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2014 03:47 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

I suppose it's a good thing that God is willing to forgive us, right?


So, god's willing to forgive those who embrace the Whore of Babylon?
 

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