53
   

What if no religions are correct, but there still is a God?

 
 
One Eyed Mind
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 10:51 am
@InfraBlue,
Infra, that is not "god's words". That's an allegory for the nature of the Universe and the nature of Us.

As not following consciousness leads to consequences. It's not "god", it's how nature works.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 12:14 pm
@One Eyed Mind,
One Eyed Mind wrote:

Infra, that is not "god's words". That's an allegory for the nature of the Universe and the nature of Us.

As not following consciousness leads to consequences. It's not "god", it's how nature works.

That's not JW doctrine.
One Eyed Mind
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 12:16 pm
@InfraBlue,
Are you implying that you were resorting to satire in your post? You should place an indicator next time.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 12:51 pm
@One Eyed Mind,
My post was not satirical.
One Eyed Mind
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 12:55 pm
@InfraBlue,
Then why did you say "that's not DW doctrine"?
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 04:51 pm
@One Eyed Mind,
One Eyed Mind wrote:

Then why did you say "that's not DW doctrine"?

Because you were responding to my response to neologist which was in regard to JW doctrine.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 05:01 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
"I have given you the freedom to follow your own conscience, but if you don't follow me I'll visit harrowing violence upon you."

Cognitively dissonant much?
Interesting insight.
Has no basis in truth, however. . . .
Human conscience is not perfect. We have no such freedom.
One Eyed Mind
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 05:02 pm
@InfraBlue,
But I was responding to you, I'm guessing you were arguing his doctrine? I see. Seeing people argue the book can make one seem as if they are defending the book at times. Sometimes one must ask, is the book really that bad? Or is the people that turn it into a weapon that makes it so?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 05:33 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
. . . .Without regard to any of that, Neo...my statement stands. I can easily understand how Blue or anyone else can conclude that you seem to be looking forward with relish to the violence seemingly prophecized.

It has nothing to do with "knowing" you...it has to do with reading what you write.

I do not know you...but I have no trouble concluding that you are a Jehovah's Witness...and that you think the teachings of the Watchtower are of value in life.

So...my comment was just an observation based on what you write.

There may no be any gods...and if there are, the gods may not be as barbaric as some of you who hold theistic views suppose. If there are, the gods may not be as disposed to "punish" people (or refuse reward) for the kinds of reasons you deem important.

But some of you who fall into the latter category seem almost delighted with what you suppose is going to happen.
I've been scratching my head for the last few days, trying to figure out how your opinion and, even more so, the opinion of Blue, could be so completely at odds with the substance of my own opinion. Then I thought of an old story.
Lots of folks have heard it, but remember only a part of it.
But, back in the day, someone wrote a story about a man named Jonah. Perhaps is was Jonah?
Never mind.
It's the end of the story that's important.
Jonah spent many days warning the people of Nineveh that God was about to destroy them for their sins. But, they repented and God relented.
Anybody remember that?
Well, how did Jonah react? . . . . He became angry that Nineveh had been spared.
Read the story if you don't recall the rest.
God was not pleased with Jonah's attitude and corrected him. The message is clear to me. We should take no delight in the punishment of others.
I understand God's viewpoint and consider it my own. I question the sincerity of anyone who cannot accept that.

BTW, there may be more meaning to the repent/relent part.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 06:43 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
. . . .Without regard to any of that, Neo...my statement stands. I can easily understand how Blue or anyone else can conclude that you seem to be looking forward with relish to the violence seemingly prophecized.

It has nothing to do with "knowing" you...it has to do with reading what you write.

I do not know you...but I have no trouble concluding that you are a Jehovah's Witness...and that you think the teachings of the Watchtower are of value in life.

So...my comment was just an observation based on what you write.

There may no be any gods...and if there are, the gods may not be as barbaric as some of you who hold theistic views suppose. If there are, the gods may not be as disposed to "punish" people (or refuse reward) for the kinds of reasons you deem important.

But some of you who fall into the latter category seem almost delighted with what you suppose is going to happen.
I've been scratching my head for the last few days, trying to figure out how your opinion and, even more so, the opinion of Blue, could be so completely at odds with the substance of my own opinion. Then I thought of an old story.
Lots of folks have heard it, but remember only a part of it.
But, back in the day, someone wrote a story about a man named Jonah. Perhaps is was Jonah?
Never mind.
It's the end of the story that's important.
Jonah spent many days warning the people of Nineveh that God was about to destroy them for their sins. But, they repented and God relented.
Anybody remember that?
Well, how did Jonah react? . . . . He became angry that Nineveh had been spared.
Read the story if you don't recall the rest.
God was not pleased with Jonah's attitude and corrected him. The message is clear to me. We should take no delight in the punishment of others.
I understand God's viewpoint and consider it my own. I question the sincerity of anyone who cannot accept that.

BTW, there may be more meaning to the repent/relent part.


I'm happy that you realize it is absurd to relish the idea of this terrible punishment...enough to try to rationalize what you have been showing.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 07:19 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
I'm happy that you realize it is absurd to relish the idea of this terrible punishment...enough to try to rationalize what you have been showing.
I don't know of any JW who would disagree with me.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2014 11:56 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
I understand God's viewpoint

Laughing
I've just attended a talk given by a Christian believer (Ph.D. Philosophy) which rejected the notion that anybody can "know God's viewpoint". That talk was originally given to, and apparently well accepted by, an ecumenical conference of church leaders. If what you say about JW's is correct, it says something about the politics of Christianity, but little else.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2014 12:37 am
@fresco,
I wrote:
I understand God's viewpoint
fresco wrote:
I've just attended a talk given by a Christian believer (Ph.D. Philosophy) which rejected the notion that anybody can "know God's viewpoint". That talk was originally given to, and apparently well accepted by, an ecumenical conference of church leaders. If what you say about JW's is correct, it says something about the politics of Christianity, but little else.
To be more accurate, I was referring to God's viewpoint regarding the situation described by Jonah.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2014 12:51 am
@neologist,
Ah you are talking about the general concept of schadenfreude which is traceable to Aristotle's ἐπιχαιρεκακία. Much of what we call "knowledge" is couched in Greek word views. (See Rorty for extensive discussion of this).
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2014 10:40 am
@fresco,
Nah!
God was just telling Jonah to chill.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2014 10:43 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
I'm happy that you realize it is absurd to relish the idea of this terrible punishment...enough to try to rationalize what you have been showing.
I don't know of any JW who would disagree with me.


The sad thing is...neither do I, Neo.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2014 11:15 am
@Frank Apisa,
The 'punishment', is avoidable. So the word 'consequence' seems more appropriate, IMO.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2014 11:40 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

The 'punishment', is avoidable. So the word 'consequence' seems more appropriate, IMO.


The word "punishment" strikes you as disgusting...as well it should. So you want to use "consequences" instead.

But the "consequences" amount to a grievous, and unnecessary loss...which really is a punishment, Neo.

It sucks. You want so much to honor this god...but the god was invented to be disgusting...and the inventors were very successful.

The god is a violence prone...vengeful, angry, demanding god...and you realize it.

But you have got to honor it, because you are terrified of the "consequences."

You really should not be arguing this stuff on the Internet. Eventually the total evidence for this god being an absurdly cruel god is going to seep in...and you are going to go through the agony of seeing clearly.

Get away while you can. Do the house to house thing. It is much safer.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2014 12:41 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
. . . the "consequences" amount to a grievous, and unnecessary loss...which really is a punishment, Neo. . . .But you have got to honor it, because you are terrified of the "consequences."
The worst that could happen to me is cessation of existence. That's no worse than what I had before I was born.
Frank Apisa wrote:
You really should not be arguing this stuff on the Internet. Eventually the total evidence for this god being an absurdly cruel god is going to seep in...and you are going to go through the agony of seeing clearly.

Get away while you can. Do the house to house thing. It is much safer.
You're kidding, right?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2014 12:45 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
. . . the "consequences" amount to a grievous, and unnecessary loss...which really is a punishment, Neo. . . .But you have got to honor it, because you are terrified of the "consequences."
The worst that could happen to me is cessation of existence. That's no worse than what I had before I was born.


Okay...so let me hear you tell your god that it is a scumbag for teaching,


"If a man has a stubborn and unruly son who will not listen to
his father or mother, and will not obey them even though they
chastise him, his father and mother shall have him apprehended
and brought out to the elders at the gate of his home city, where
...his fellow citizens shall stone him to death." Deuteronomy 22:18ff


Quote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
You really should not be arguing this stuff on the Internet. Eventually the total evidence for this god being an absurdly cruel god is going to seep in...and you are going to go through the agony of seeing clearly.

Get away while you can. Do the house to house thing. It is much safer.
You're kidding, right?


Not at all, Neo. Whatever would give you that idea?
0 Replies
 
 

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