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Fri 21 May, 2004 01:26 pm
Get US Military Out of Iraq
by Dennis J. Kucinich
The U.S. military presence in Iraq is counterproductive. If we stay the course, it will damage America's security and lead to a longer war, more troop losses and civilian casualties, hundreds of billions of tax dollars wasted and, inevitably, a draft.
The U.S. invasion was based on lies: Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11 or with al-Qaeda's role in it. Iraq didn't have the intention or capability of attacking America. It did not try to get uranium from Niger. It had no weapons of mass destruction. It was wrong to go in. It is wrong to stay in.
This is the time for a peace plan for Iraq and an exit strategy for the U.S. The world community will not make a commitment absent a change of direction in U.S. policy.
These needed steps can bring our troops home, reconnect the U.S. with the world, re-establish our moral authority and lead Iraq toward stability and self-governance:
Transfer control of Iraqi oil assets to the United Nations until Iraq is self-governing.
Hand contracts to the U.N. until Iraq achieves self-governance, so there will be no more Halliburton-type sweetheart deals or war profiteering, and Iraqis can get jobs.
Obey the Geneva and Hague conventions, stop privatizing Iraq's economy, and return the Iraqi people's national wealth.
Rebuild what the U.S. military destroyed, and compensate families of innocent civilians who lost their lives in the war.
Help fund a U.N. peacekeeping mission until Iraq is self-governing. When U.N. peacekeepers rotate in, U.S. troops will rotate out.
These steps can clear the way for the U.N. to help a new Iraqi government assume control of all the oil and other assets of Iraq, agree to temporary U.N. peacekeeping, schedule free elections and adopt a constitution to move toward self-governance.
This plan can achieve what's most important: bringing our troops home in 90 days, restoring America's credibility ?- and peace.
Rep. Dennis J. Kucinich of Ohio is a Democratic candidate for president.
You are saying Kucinich can't be president just because he is right.
I heard Dick Morris yesterday saying that if he were Bush's campaign advisor, he'd tell Bush to get out of Iraq. If he doesn't, he's going to lose this election. I think he could be right. And I think it might be a good idea to get out of Iraq too.
I think Bush will risk losing the election if he believes staying in iraq is the right thing to do.
I agree. But it's still early.
We are going to have to face the facts we screwed up and leave Iraq. The situation is not going to get better with the US occupation. There is nothing to be gained by staying in Iraq.
The only question is how many people (both Americans and Iraqis) have to die before that we realize that.
If we leave Iraq now, we will signal to Al Queda and all other terrorist groups (again) that we Americans are wimps who will cut and run as soon as things become difficult. And as they are the ones who are making things difficult in Iraq, they will know that all they have to do to bend American opinion to their will is to make things difficult in other ways as well. They can bring down any president, destroy any government, simply by doing what they do.
And no free people anywhere will be safe ever again.
We cannot afford to lose the war in Iraq. And the smart money is on getting behind the administration and the military and urging them to win it.
Foxfyre wrote:If we leave Iraq now, we will signal to Al Queda and all other terrorist groups (again) that we Americans are wimps who will cut and run as soon as things become difficult. And as they are the ones who are making things difficult in Iraq, they will know that all they have to do to bend American opinion to their will is to make things difficult in other ways as well. They can bring down any president, destroy any government, simply by doing what they do.
And no free people anywhere will be safe ever again.
We cannot afford to lose the war in Iraq. And the smart money is on getting behind the administration and the military and urging them to win it.
That is hyperbole and exaggeration, and is in no way related to anything sensible or logical.
kickycan wrote:That is hyperbole and exaggeration, and is in no way related to anything sensible or logical.
Your point when taken to full value only returns upon its self in its true defining moment.
I see what you mean. I like the way you put that, Bill. I'm gonna write that down.
That is truly a self-defining quote, and it stands alone in its equivalence.
We must stay in Iraq until the foreign fighters are defeated and the al Sadrs of the country are either run out or put in jail. Then we can turn things over to a fairly-elected government and walk away knowing we did the best we could. If we leave before Iraq has a stable government, the country will turn into something like Afghanistan was under the Taliban - rival war lords ruling every little neighborhood and patch of desert.
Foxfyre wrote:If we leave Iraq now, we will signal to Al Queda and all other terrorist groups (again) that we Americans are wimps who will cut and run as soon as things become difficult. And as they are the ones who are making things difficult in Iraq, they will know that all they have to do to bend American opinion to their will is to make things difficult in other ways as well. They can bring down any president, destroy any government, simply by doing what they do.
And no free people anywhere will be safe ever again.
We cannot afford to lose the war in Iraq. And the smart money is on getting behind the administration and the military and urging them to win it.
It's too late Foxfyre. Iraq is lost. There is no possible way for us to be successful by any measure of success.
The argument that America can't show weakness is false. Americans are being killed, and why? So we won't be wimps? Are you willing to give the live of your husband, wife son or daughter for this reason.
We live in a Democracy. In a democracy is that a war can't survive without public support. As more and more GI's die, more and more Americans will stop supporting the war. Sooner or later the US will be forced to leave Iraq.
Look, Iraq is a disaster. If we can't afford to lose the war in Iraq then we shouldn't have entered it.
The US has lost the war. The best thing to do now is to accept it so we can heal our wounds and bury our dead.
There is no point to wasting one more life on this lost cause.
ebrown_p wrote:It's too late Foxfyre. Iraq is lost. There is no possible way for us to be successful by any measure of success.
You're completely wrong there.
Quote:SO WHAT HAS BEEN ACCOMPLISHED IN IRAQ?: Let's just list one or two...
1. 36,000 teachers and supervisors trained
2. Teachers salaries increased (had previously been $5)
3. 8.7 millions new math and science books distributed
4. All schools outfitted with new desks and chalkboards
5. 2500 schools rehabbed
6. 4500 new schools to be built in 4 years
7. Transitional Law to govern interim
8. Iraq's Interim Constitution contains Bill of Rights
9. Bill of Rights is unprecendented in Middle East
10. Iraqi Army and Police retrained
11. Iraqi Defense Ministry fills all posts
12. Seven Iraqi Ministries already have soveriegnty
13. Coalition has completed 20,000 reconstruction projects
14. Schools, orphanages and medical clinics now open
15. Over 19 billion available to rebuild Iraq
16. Coalition and Local leaders apportion money
17. Coalition estimates over 1.5 million jobs created
18. 1000 Iraqi firms already contracted
19. Foreign banks operating in Iraq
20. 2/2004 - 315 state owned banks reopened
21. 19 private banks with 140 branches have opened
22. Financial Laws passed
23. Inflation is completely stable (historically incredible)
24. Iraqi currency exchange completed 1/15/2004
25. Five trillion dinar exchanged in 3 months
26. Iraqi currency appreciating in value
27. Investor confidence is up
28. Taxation suspended in April to spur economy
29. Iraq's government budget tops 19.2 billion
30. Iraqi government investing 125 million in new jobs
31. 2004 budget includes 400 million to reduce debt
32. New Iraqi Stock Exchange opened in April
33. Iraq's judicial system operational and courts open
34. Baghdad street crime down 70%
35. 169 judges and prosecutors removed for Baath connections
36. 3000 Iraqi corrections officers working
Link
Tarantulas wrote:If we leave before Iraq has a stable government, the country will turn into something like Afghanistan was under the Taliban - rival war lords ruling every little neighborhood and patch of desert.
And how do you know that us staying there will stabilize things? What possible evidence could you have seen that would back up this statement?
The rule since 1975 has been to not enter any military theater unless there is an exit strategy. None exists nor ever existed for the Bush War - voila. Actually, there was never any strategy - period; except for shock and awe. We are finally in that period :sad:
ebrown_p wrote:Foxfyre wrote:If we leave Iraq now, we will signal to Al Queda and all other terrorist groups (again) that we Americans are wimps who will cut and run as soon as things become difficult. And as they are the ones who are making things difficult in Iraq, they will know that all they have to do to bend American opinion to their will is to make things difficult in other ways as well. They can bring down any president, destroy any government, simply by doing what they do.
And no free people anywhere will be safe ever again.
We cannot afford to lose the war in Iraq. And the smart money is on getting behind the administration and the military and urging them to win it.
It's too late Foxfyre. Iraq is lost. There is no possible way for us to be successful by any measure of success.
The argument that America can't show weakness is false. Americans are being killed, and why? So we won't be wimps? Are you willing to give the live of your husband, wife son or daughter for this reason.
We live in a Democracy. In a democracy is that a war can't survive without public support. As more and more GI's die, more and more Americans will stop supporting the war. Sooner or later the US will be forced to leave Iraq.
Look, Iraq is a disaster. If we can't afford to lose the war in Iraq then we shouldn't have entered it.
The US has lost the war. The best thing to do now is to accept it so we can heal our wounds and bury our dead.
There is no point to wasting one more life on this lost cause.
This could be the most defeatist posting I have ever read.
right?! 
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