Assault Weapon features and what they do.

Another thing, why do you antigunners think it is so bad for us mortal civilians to own firearms but it is okay for Rosie O'Donnell, Diane Feinstein, and many other "celebrities" who either use guns and own them (yes I mean hand guns) personally or who have body gaurds that use them. Wait they get a pass because they are liberals right? It is only the Right Wing Conspiracy Theorist Redneck that is not allowed to own a pistol. I forgot.

Well there goes the blood pressure again.

if i were to go re-research everything I quote or know, i would not have time for a single post. the facts are misconstruded out there ANYWAY. now....about bump firing my AK 12 gauge....

saint: if you have money, you can do whatever you want, including be a hippocryte...by the way, if you REALLY want to see your bloodpressure skyrocket, go to the ATF site and show me WHERE it says that I cannot clip an 8 round detachable magazine to my semi-auto shotgun. let me save you some time. its NOT there. congress passes a law, and give it to the ATF to interpret how they see fit is what it comes down to. as technical as they want to get, if one were to do it right back to them, you would be surprised at how the law can be translated. THIS is the issue to me, not so much anything else. Thier solution because they cant seem to write a law the correct way, is to just ban the stuff. What the heck kind of law making is that?

I don't recommend using your hip to do that. I am well aware of that I just would like an explanation from the Anti's as to why it's okay for them and not for us. Let us not forget that the only citizens in Washington D.C. that are allowed to carry guns are not even citizens of that city, they are the Senators and Congressmen and women that are allowed to carry (and don't think that it is only the "pro gun" people doing it)

Craven De Kere had a great list of tactics used by pro-gun advocates. You guys should realize that between the two of you, you've pretty much hit all the bases.

For convienence, I will quote it here:



Cycloptichorn

you must have a different technique than I do, because I dont actually use my hip to do anything, just stabilise....

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=6737
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=6901

let me be immature for one second and just say this

boo hoo to you too. you dont like me owning these things, well, too bad.

Lol. It won't be too bad when we outlaw them from under you. And then, you will be one of those criminals who will 'get them no matter what the laws are.'

You cannot possibly say that increasing the supply of weapons in a region decreases the amount of violence. You can use whatever words you want to try to twist it around, but those 80% of crooks who got guns illegally will have a MUCH harder time obtaining them if they are outlawed, period.

Cycloptichorn

nope, actually, i have been buying assualt weapons on a monthly basis. Know why? because no matter WHAT you do, you can outlaw them all you want. guess what? they will grandfather. besides, 98% of gun crimes are done with HANDGUNS and other gun. NOT ASSAULT WEAPONS. Fact is fact, not fiction. You can pass anything you want. I will still have my LEGAL weapons in my family for the next 100 years. The only thing banning stuff will do is about nothing.

do you even KNOW how most criminals are getting ahold of these guns? I bet you dont.

Well, technically, neither do you, unless you actually want to go find some statistics now that it will support your case. But you don't have time for that, do you?

I'm not against rifles, and I don't think assault weapons are a big enough percentage to worry about other than the fact that you have no possible use for one.

I just think handguns are for one thing only - concealing with the intention of killing someone. They are used in all the wrong situations.

And, how can you say for sure the guns you own would be grandfathered in? You don't know that they would. They very well may not be.

Cycloptichorn

I dont need to go find anyhting. Being a legal gun owner, I know all the procedures (as well as the holes out there) to buying a firearm.

And as for grandfathering? yes i DO know they will. example is NYC. If you owned a pistol or assault weapon prior to the ban there on them, you filled out paperwork to register it in the city limits ONLY if you had priorly owned it. Almost all of these weapons are still there, and carry paperwork making them very valuable because you can transfer them within said juristiction legally to someone else.

These types of things seem to only be known by legitimate owners out there of course. A lot of anti-gun people spout this and that, and they dont realise these laws are either in place already, or there is a major HOLE in one in one state that needs plugging. the answer is not to respond to that ignorance by saying lets BAN EM ALL!!

I religiously believe that plugging the holes left in the laws that the people that dont know a thing about guns exccept they kill, will do more for stopping the flow of weapons into criminal's hands than anything else they could do. See my post above for what I think would help. As a responsible gun owner, I think it is my obligation to not only voice my concerns, but to help work out something that both sides can agree to, that will definately help stop this flow. Banning guns wont work. How many guns are out there that have been privately transferred legally? HOW do you all plan to get those if you ban em all? The answer is you cant. All that will happen is the law abiding citizen will be made a criminal and I for one wont see any reason for my own self to pay any more taxes to a government that wont represent me anymore. Again, this can work for everyone, I am sure. If the pro-gun people would stop saying NO GUN LAWS PERIOD, we might actually be able to accomplish this. California laws are way over the line. those laws should be for LA, not the whole state, just like it is here in New York. I cannot stop in certain cities for gas even on a road trip across the state for a trap shoot for instance, with certain types of firearms in my car. I guess they shouldnt have rioted so much in the 60's in those cities if they wanted to own guns. I am not up for armed revolt, but I am up for a big arguement in the courts. I as well as millions of others. Remember that the NRA is not encompassing all gun owners. If all gun owners joined the NRA, you would be shocked I think by the numbers of americans that have them. Either way, this country is founded on protecting the rights of the few, as well as those of the whole. To ban guns would be to think that putting gloves on a boxer will make them stop fighting.

Nice "family" Bvamp.

Cyclops - did you even read the post about Kennesaw,Ga or did you figure since it was about a bunch of "hicks" it didn't really matter and go on about your business.

I have not insinuated that anyone is a victim for not choosing to take up a weapon. I have asserted that I won't be a victim of a crime if I can stop it in any way.

I never said that any anti gun person was a wimp that would be protected by the pro-gun. In fact, if you are that anti gun - don't ask me for help if you need it, I know how you feel about guns and will leave them at home.

Okay, so I repeat the word right - but that is only because that is what it is. A right, not a privledge a right gauranteed by the constitution that all men are created equal and have certain Rights given by the creator

Any society that has succeeded in gun control is serville, you do realize that people in these countries that you keep portraying as having complete and utter gun control do still own weapons don't you? The farmers in Australia still have guns, the hunters in England etc. And the criminals in these countries also still have guns.

Last Bastion against tyranny - well that one was already proved in Athens, TN. I would provide a link but I am sure that you wouldn't follow it or read it anyway but suffice it to say, this was as recent as 1945 that arms were used to oust a government official that had "worn out his welcome."

Various scenarios with cinemagraphic outcomes. Well it is always best to be prepared. As I have stated before, the mostly likely scenario that I will have to use my gun is against a dog that is threatening me or my family. Do I think that I will gallantly reach in to my holster produce my weapon and fire a nice shot in to the animal as it lunges for us? Nope, I figure the thing will start growling and running in my direction and I will shoot as many bullets into it as it takes for the thing to drop and quit atacking.

Recite the scriptures that support having a weapon - well as long as it is good for the goose (that being the antigunner) why can't we?

As for the obsession for inanimate objects, well what about the car guys? How many people were killed in car accidents? Do we outlaw them? 43,987 people were killed by vehicles. Where is the outrage against that? (source: http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html)

A boy (or girl)'s first outing with a gun is a "deflowering event." It is a right of passage as much as a first communion, first bicycle, first kiss, etc in many families. I can remember the first time I shot a shot gun, nearly took my arm off the kick was so bad, but I learned from it and I learned to respect it.

Think about this:

a. The number of physicians in the US is 700,000.
b. Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year is 120,000.
c. Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171. (US Dept. of Health & Human Services)

Then think about this:

a. The number of gun owners in the US is 80,000,000.
b. The number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups) is 1,500.
c. The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is .0000188.

Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.

FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR.

by the way, if they ATF really cared about getting guns off the street, they would institute a 24/7 gun buyback program INDEFINATELY. do you know how many guns they got when they did that here? they were out of money in DAYS! Elderly people, drug addicts, mothers, etc etc all were turning them in. That I think is one of the BEST if not THE best way right NOW of getting thsoe illegal guns off the streets. But I dont see the anti-gun people willing to put THIER money up for that task. I am willing to buy more legal guns to fund this effort through the taxes I pay on mine, as well as donate money to do so. I feel this is part of my obligations of being a responsible gun owner.

saints: thats just a sample. I dont want to scare anyone with how much I do own. let me just put it this way. we have a 19 gun limit here in NY state. This year, I will have to sell off some of my older weapons to make room for what I have yet to obtain for my collection. I parted with a 4000 dollar kentucky rifle for instance to purchase assault weapons and a handgun for my father's birthday. (which i shoot more than he does btw ) Likewise, fireworks are illegal in my state, so guess what I do every 4th of July? I go through thousands of rounds every 4th. It is my own way of getting a bunch of people together to have some good fun, and celebrate this most excellent country's birth that we live in. And if someone wants to take JUST THAT from me, forget it. I know most if not all the loopholes out there, and I am confident that I will get around anything that is put to law. Like I said, more laws wont do a damn thing. Fix the laws and loopholes in place. They ARE sufficient if written better.

Once again, I don't have a problem with rifles, just with handguns.

Bvamp, you said:


To which I said:


To which you responded:


Which didn't really answer my question, yaknow. That's two unsubstantiated assertions in the same thread. You cannot use assertions to convince people that your argument is sound, please back it up with some evidence if you want to be taken seriously, it's all I'm asking.

Saintsfan, Doctors and cars have other purposes than hurting people. Handguns do not.

Cycloptichorn

Cyclop must have decided that we weren't any fun to play with anymore. Oh Well.

There's a 19-gun limit in NY? I guess I can't move there.

I wonder how many guns the Clintons brought with them?

I'm still responding, aren't I?

Riling you guys up is almost as fun as the fundemental religious crowd.

Cycloptichorn

Cybflop or whatever your name is, let me get this right:

you want me to reaveal what I know about illegally obtaining firearms in a public (or private) forum? you are crazy if you think I am going into detail on that. Ask saints. it is a federal crime to impart this type of knowledge to someone that you even remotely think will use it to the same effect. again, you dont know your laws. I for one read the entire NFA act as well as all of my federal and state regulations. If you really want to know that information, go look for yourself, as I wont be the one to publicly post how to obtain a handgun if you are a felon, live in a state that requires permits to own them, or whatever. you are barking up the wrong tree if you want to goad me into stating this information. I am sure the other serious gun owners in this forum can back my claim up, and wont reveal it either. I already generally stated the problem. scroll back if you missed it.