Assault Weapon features and what they do.

How can I be sure the pistol will stop the children in time?

Seriously, though, your above example is not justification for carrying a pistol around with you. First, you could put 'rifle' in the place of pistol and I'd be just fine (can't conceal a rifle as easily), and second, you are appealing to extremes - how often does that situation come up? I would say, for 99.9% of people, never. I mean, I COULD be robbed by gypsy bandits at any moment. That doesn't mean I should walk around slinging iron all the time.... JUST IN CASE.

Cycloptichorn

Just for perspective let me note that the pro-gun crowd (not saying this is you or anything) have had members who often (and this is only half-joking my friend). I mean there have been plenty of really reasonable pro-gun people but a lot have been of the type that:

• Insinuate that the unarmed are "victims".
  
• Insinuate that those who favor gun control are wimps who will be protected by the pro-gun crowd (this is easily the most funny).
  
• Simply repeat the word "right" a lot (no kidding, any time something is forbiden it is a "right" being taken away).
  
• Declare that any society that has succeeded in gun-control are a servile society.
  
• Declare themselves the last bastidion of freedom against tyranny (like a cartoon messianic complex).
  
• Puff up and describe the various scenarios in which their weaponry is certain to result in a cinematographically spectacular justification of their own existence (I have yet to see other items generate such a volume of spontaneous, if nebulous self-justification). This is usually coupled with a brief arsenal measurement versus other likeminded enthusiasts and a couple of Tim Allen grunts and maybe a discussion of aim, and whose is the longest before the debate proceeds. Of course, a castle-complex or two will have emerged during the male-bonding break.
  
• Recite the "scriptures" (being any text whatsoever that is in unquestionable support for the weapons).
  
• Exhibited perhaps what is a passionate and unrivalled (in the non-sexual world) obbsession for a class of inanimate objects that has ever been seen. Seriously dudes, all the "pry it from my cold dead hands" rhetoric really belies any of the previously mentioned concern for bodily safety. It's an ideology already!
  
• Waxed nostalgic about hearkening to older times and past experiences with guns like it was a deflowering event.
  

Nothing personal, but look at your avatars for crying out loud. There has never been a topic on these boards that has generated so many people who discuss one singular topic at all on the website as guns.

I don't think you see this anywhere in the world except America and it's an odd sight. A stready stream of people whose only apparent beef is that guns are getting a really bum deal.



I was beggining to suspect as much. I hesitate to use the term "gun nuts" even if affectionately I do, in fact, acknowledge that the pro-gun crowd tends to really really appreciate their firearms.

As you may have noted I don't personally want to even try to take them away, in America it's not worth even trying.

Has anyone ever noticed that the places with the most restrictive gun control laws end up with highest violent crime rates???

compare washington DC and Arlington VA

seperate juristictions in the same place, both of equal convenience, and population density.

30 years ago they had very similar violent crime rates, then Washington DC banned all guns (with few very limited exceptions). 10 years ago Virginia made it very easy to own and carry a gun. Now, D.C. has one of the highest violent crime rates of any juristiction in the country (consistently in the top 5, rated #2 for 2003).

Maybe the reason traditional gun control (banning guns) is declining and not really being called for as loudly, is because it is not only ineffective, but couter-productive.

I like to think of prudent, "shall issue" style concealed weapon permits as effective violent crime control.

What crap!!! There are whole countries out there with tighter gun-control laws than the US and the populations are NOT in the streets killing each other with the same enthusiasm as the average gun-toting American.

In Australia we have very strong laws since some nutter went on a killing spree. As a nation we had only 57 homocides involving firearms in 1998 (almost all of those were with handguns) - an average of 0.3 per 100 000 population.

Source doc

These are consistant with other countries such as New Zealand, Canada, Japan, Switzerland, etc. These laws DO protect people AND save lives.

Ahem - some of the pro-gun folk here think only in US terms, Stilly.

Jar, thats not what I was talking about. The identification system didn't go by the rifling. It went by the imprint on the base of the cartrige that was left when the pin strikes the shell and ignites the round. There was a big deal made about it not too long ago how it could have helped out with alot of investigations, but the NRA fought it tooth and nail.

In any case, just as still pointed out, there are other countries with severely strict gun control laws (In Japan, they raid houses they suspect are in possesion of guns, fer Chrissake!), and the population seems to be doing just fine.

And yes, if I woke up in the middle of the night with two cokeheads in my bedroom room, carrying knives and dirty syringes, while holding back a pack of rabid, disease carrying pit bulls equipped with razor blades taped to their paws, as an HIV infected axe murderer rapist stood behind them ready to have his way with me, I'd like a gun.
But as stated previously in the thread, I can create any dramatic situation that would require a gun. Crime is going to happen. There are precautioins that the average person can take to avoid being in those situations or making them safer without the need for a "Dirty Harry" recreation.

Your love for guns is a little unnerving. When you get the chance, I'd love to hear the story behind it. (And be honest- sometimes you walk around the house with your gun and act out scenarios, dont' you? :wink: )

Being honest - my love for guns comes from a heritage that has been passed down to me from my father, and his father, and his fathers father. Not to mention that the majority of my family are hunters (yes vile meat eaters.) We appreciate the beauty of the weapons them selves not just their powers. We respect the weapons and what they can do for and to us.

Do I walk around my house with my gun, yes I do since more likely than not that will be the place that I need it. The city I live in is increasing its status on the list of violent cities. We keep inching closer and closer to number 1. Acting out scenarios at home? Nope, the range I go to has a FATS system (Firearms Training Simulator) that lets you "practice" in "real world" scenarios. I don't have to act in my home.

As for my Avatar and signature - well that is just so that people on here know my stance on guns with out me ever having to say a word. Not to mention the avatar is the pistol that I trust my life to should I ever need it.

The cases that were mentioned were about America. Washington D.C. is a very violent city. They have made it almost impossible for an ordinary citizen to own a gun. The only ones that have been allowed to are primarily the Representatives and Senators. The same people that are in the house and the congress lobbying to take away the private citizens right to bear arms are concealed carrying people. Dianne Feinstein has one of the few carry permits issued in her area. When asked why she was carrying, she replied that she had to go through some seedy areas in order to get to the hospital where her husband (or father I can't remember which off the top of my head) was. She said that the police wouldn't necessarily be there to protect her. Rosie O'Donnel - another anti gun person - has ARMED SECURITY GAURDS to take her daughter to school. These people are only body gaurds, they are not police or military members.

Oh as for the Firing Pin identification - I can change firing pins and that changes the guns "unique" identifier there by defeating your system.

Paranioa is a dangerous thing, man. You really should consider seeking some psychiatric help if you live in such a state of fear of crime that you feel it neccessary to carry a gun around your house all the time.

You do realize that even though you are trained with that gun and the proper safety procedures have been taken, that a member of your family is way more likely to be injured by that loaded weapon you carry around then any crook? Remember, every single person who had that happened to them has the same attitude that you do about it - 'well, that was some idiot, it won't happen to me.'

Don't shoot the messenger on this one - I grew up hunting and shooting guns, I know how safe they can be if used properly. I'm another one of those vile meat eaters, and I like to eat meat I kill myself best. But carrying a loaded weapon around your house all the time? Seriously, you should consider talking to someone about it. It's not healthy.

Cycloptichorn

I don't need psychiatric help. I am not paranoid about what might happen, as I am prepared for it. My family knows that I carry a gun and they know where I keep it. I don't carry when there are children in the house and usually I carry up until I change clothes when I get home from work.

As for a member of my family getting hurt, that is a possibility. We have talked about it, we know what to do should the need arise.

Lets all call the gun nut paranoid and suggest he see a shrink. Is that the answer? Nope. (P.S. my shrink carries a gun too, so does my lawyer)

You seem to think that there is no possible critique for carrying a loaded gun around all the time, which frankly makes me wonder why you are even posting here.

I (and this is coming from someone well acquainted with pistols, rifles, and not to mention growing up in a terrible neighborhood in Houston) have seen first-hand the trouble guns can cause. You aren't protecting anything with that gun except your own ego, you do realize that?

You say your lawyer and shrink carry guns around all the time as well. Where the hell do think you live, in the Wild West?



Should the need arise? I am sincerely hoping I am misreading your statement here, as it seems to me that you have made contingency plans for what will happen if one member of your family gets shot accidentally with one of your guns. If that is the case, what are you going to say when one of them is dead? Because guns have a funny way of killing people, yaknow.

We had guns in my house growing up. I know the value of gun safety. Walking around carrying a loaded gun all the time is pushing the boundaries of gun safety to the absolute limits in order to support your insecurities.

But, as you don't care what I say one way or another, I'll stop writing about it. I pray that one of your kids doesn't catch a bullet to the chest one day from your own gun, like hundreds of others whose fathers felt the same way as you.

Cycloptichorn

Given the circumstances, I think that's a sensible request.

I am not saying, should the need arise that a family member is shot. I am saying should the need arise that I have to use my gun.

Like I said, I am not going to convince any one that is anti-handgun that there is a definite need for them. No one that is anti-handgun is going to convince me that I don't need one.

I feel bad for innocent people that are injured with hand guns. I feel bad for people that don't own handguns that are killed with them every day because some young punk is trying to prove his or her reputation.

What exactly is unsafe about carrying a loaded handgun? It is in a properly designed and fitting holster, the gun is in perfect condition as far as maintenance is conserned, and the members of my family know that I have it. Friends that come over, know that I have it, the neighbors know that I have it and even the local police that drive around in my neighborhood know that I have it.

I have applied for the proper permits and have received them. I am not breaking any law. I don't drink when I am carrying or if I even think I will be carrying in the next few hours. When the alcohol comes out, the guns are put away and are not touched again until everyone is stone cold sober.

Do I live in the Wild West? Nope, but I plan on moving there soon, I won't have to carry a gun there either because of the low crime rate. So if you want to take up a collection and help me move to a place where I don't have to carry a gun so that you can feel better, hey I am all for it. Land goes for a couple grand an acre out there and I want 20 acres preferably with a stream running through it.

Filing down a barrel. Felonious act. You go to prison. there are laws. 57 homocides WITH GUNS in austrailia. how many guns per 100,000 ppl are there, and how many TOTAL homocides were there that year? thats pretty lopsided statement. as for guns being illegal in some countries? yeh, that works REAL WELL in pakistan. LOL PEPPER SPRAY !!! I guess you all dont know the secret to that junk. I eat LOTS of spicy food. pepper spray is something to spice my food with, and an annoyance to me. I have spoken to police officers that also are aware of that, and they agree. Best not get caught on the street with that butterfly knife....that should cover most of my gripes with comments above except this one:

About these gun laws coinciding with violence. YES i have noticed. the texas bell tower was what? 1965? and the NFA act was in the middle of the heavy riots in 1968? the original gun registration laws? what was that 1920's? if you dont know what was going on in the 20's with organised crime, i feel bad for you. Then how about the LA bank robbery and the commiefornia assault weapons bans. Then there is the brady bill. we all know how brady was, and why they passed that. If noone has noticed that these laws have coincided with domestic violence, maybe you should pay closer attention. Now we have the terrorist threat. What do you do? make every gun have paperwork and a wait period with required background checks, regardless of private or public sale. that is EXACTLY what they are trying to pass now. I can understand that all, and its fine and dandy with me. BUT, if they pass laws which make my owning firearms more costly to me, or just prohibits me from MORE guns, (it ridiculous here in NYS now), then I am going to get a little irritated and have to say this:

take some of the ATF money and give it to local law enforcement to hire more cops and buy better guns.

instate the gun buyback program with amnesty PERMANENTLY.

dont allow the gunshow loophole that makes straw purchases easy.

dont allow non-citizens to own. no naturalised ownership.

stiffer penalties for these kids shooting their classmates. try life in prison mandatory. screw juvenile hall, send them to the big house for life. not life with parole in 10, life.

mandatory execution of terrorists. *I* dont wish to pay for them to sit and rot, and maybe escape.

all though i think it IS an invasion of privacy, fingerprint all handgun barrels. the handgun is the preferred weapon of choice for criminals.

lastly, there should be more people out there trying to expose the anti-gun people to the reality of gun ownership.

like ive said before, and i will say it again....banning guns of any kind wont do a damn THING! sawed off shotguns have been illegal without a DD tax stamp since the 20's. how often do you guys that watch the cops shows see criminals get caught with sawed off shotguns? the answer is not to ban all shotguns, it is to make stiffer penalties. why let someone like that out of jail? nah, they do it once, they are out in 5. a guy gets caught selling pot three times and they go to jail for life. let the people out that didnt do violent acts, and make the laws that deal with violence twice as harsh. guys that are on the street selling guns should be lined up and shot, as far as i am concerned. But because they do so, does NOT mean I should have to give my guns up. That will only empower the wrong-doers in this country. The United States of America is NOT england, it is NOT Austrailia, it is NOT europe, russia, pakistan, asia, africa. This is AMERICA. Our country was born through violence, and we emerged from the smoke with guns in our hands. That is a fact of life here, and that is how it will stay I think for a long time, until guns are no longer used.

by the way, saints? did you know that out west where you refer to the crime rate being lower, is because EVERYONE has a gun? THAT is a fact.

Really, it is a fact? <scratches head> can you give me a source on that, or is it an assertion?

Cycloptichorn

call up anyone in new mexico and ask them there. (with the exception of the war zone in alubuquerque of course. those ppl are animals though anyway and get what they are going to get regardless) NOONE is going to publish that, and you know it. It is common knowledge. Im getting pretty tired of the trollers and people that just want to get others going on and on in here already. And yes, there is statistics out there that do say in areas with high percentage per head of gun ownership, the personal crime rate IS lower. if you ask anti-gun people, they will include gang-lands into that #, pro-gun people will remove those (usually small) areas from the count. I am removing the war zones from my count. war zones, as I call them, should never be included in counts. they should all collectively be added together and accounted for seperate from the rest of the nation, to be any kind of fair to anyone.

That's true BVAMP - why is it that law enforcement and the district attorney's are unable to prosecute offenders to the fullest extent of the laws that are already on the books? Attorneys are able to get felons reduced sentences almost at will these days.

The problem in America is not the handguns, the problem is that no one has to take responsibility for their actions. If I shoot someone that is coming in my house at night that doesn't live there, I will be arrested, booked and possibly spend time in jail. The person I shot (if they live) will sue me for shooting them even though they were breaking in to my house. They will hire a lawyer that will try to prove to a jury that they had a right to my stuff because their mother didn't hug them enough as a child.

The problem in America is Political Correctness. People sue because they are offended - you know what - GOOD. I am glad that you are offended. That proves that you are a human being, now build a bridge and get over it.

Where does one persons rights and another persons begin? We have the right to freedom of speech right? But I can't say things that could be construed as racial, sexist, harassing, etc or I will get sued. Is that right? Nope. Hippie feel good lawyers came along and have been ruining this country ever since.

Russia, Romania, The UK, Africa, they can have all the democracy and gun laws they want, it ain't going to make a lick of difference here in America.

We as individuals need to stand up and say "Enough is Enough." The government is taxing us WAY TOO MUCH and we don't get enough to show for it.

I'm just asking for you to back up your claims, or realize that claims you cannot back up are assertions, not facts.

I live in Texas. I've been to New Mexico plenty of times, have relatives there, I know plenty of people who do NOT own guns. Which is why I find it kind of odd that you assume I could call up 'anyone' in New Mexico and 'ask' them as any sort of proof that higher gun ownership lowers crime.

Your argument is so full of holes, you could use it as a strainer, man. Don't come to a political debate board and expect to be taken seriously if you cannot back up what you say with some sort of corroborating evidence.

Cycloptichorn

By the way, Kennesaw, Georgia: Mandatory gun laws. http://www.seebo.net/Kennesaw.html More people carrying, less crime. Just having a gun at home won't help you have to carry it (legally of course)

yeh right? with all these taxes I have paid on my guns alone, where the hell is my copy of the regulations, like you get for a CAR or GAME license? I tell ya, I am very tired of seeing the homeless people in my area sleep in the woods because they no longer have ID or any hope of getting some to even THINK about getting a job with. I am a self-employed contractor and I DO go around and find people that look like they need the help, and give them a couple days work when I can. Why are we sending all this money and help all over the damn place and not doing anything for our own except making more taxes, laws, and other burdens for us as citizens, and not doing anything for our elderly, homeless, or whatever. Its got zilch to do with the president. it has to do with people in office being "holier than thou". This very same priciple extends to the gun issue now, and I for one dont like how its progressing. Because one (yes, quote me, ONE) person in office doesnt like guns, they vote for all of us in thier area how THEY want to. The area I live in has one of the highest concentration of legal guns in the country, and yet we have some of the harshest laws. Taxation without representation comes to mind. Where is all my money going, anyway? Its going to the town's fireworks and the local parks for the sporty kids that dont even LIVE HERE! I expect the same from my gun taxes. As much as the government is making US accountable for OUR money, and OUR actions, who makes them accountable for thiers? noone. thats who. noone. I welcome them to TRY to take my guns because some beurocrat thinks taxing me to the point of not being able to pay on time is the right thing to do. Spend that time and agency effort on going down to main street and sweeping the entire area for guns. dont tax me and then do nothing but print fancy paperwork for me to sign to show for it.