31
   

hello

 
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Nov, 2014 09:15 pm
This is what my intentions are as regards movement conservatism and the modern Republican Party. I"m not going to punk out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7BgOYPNTlA
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Nov, 2014 10:05 pm
Holy ****! I've just listened to my messages backwards. Satan has been calling and calling me!
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Sun 9 Nov, 2014 01:57 pm
@blatham,
I'm curious about your fairly consistent use of the phrase "movement conservatism". What does in imply? Do you believe there is anything similar on the other side of the aisle/debate? i.e. movement progressives?
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Sat 15 Nov, 2014 02:24 pm
@georgeob1,
I've given you data and links on this before, george. The term arose from within a sector of the conservative community as a self-descriptor. It isn't my term nor a term originating on the left or from anyone in media, as I've clarified previously. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movement_conservatism Why do you have a problem with this?

At present, the bifurcation within the GOP and conservatism generally is quite visible with a business-related or traditionalist component on one side and a much more doctrinaire and ideological component on the other. It's not a black and white differentiation but it is real and the main source of conservative turmoil that goes back decades but is now becoming increasingly acute.

If there is any single marker for this movement, it would be the notion that any form of governance other than what they espouse is axiomatically illegitimate. Liberalism is illegitimate. The Dem party is illegitimate. These folks do commonly believe that single party rule with them in charge is not merely desirable but necessary for the continuation of liberty and Americanness as they define it.

Something like it on the left? Liberals have or include different communities and traditions, of course. Differing notions of proper governance, of course. But over the last four or five decades, the left has not been marked by a passionate inside group dedicated to gaining power within the party and managing to do so, as is the case with movement conservatives. The closest analogy would be the emerging Bernie Sanders/Elizabeth Warren populist impulse.





hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Nov, 2014 02:30 pm
@blatham,
Quote:
Something like it on the left? Liberals have or include different communities and traditions, of course. Differing notions of proper governance, of course. But over the last four or five decades, the left has not been marked by a passionate inside group dedicated to gaining power within the party and managing to do so, as is the case with movement conservatives. The closest analogy would be the emerging Bernie Sanders/Elizabeth Warren populist impulse.


Ya, I think you are correct. The individual freedom wing of the party got steamrolled by the activist government needs to tell us what to do and back it up with the criminal code wing of the party. I saw it coming, which is one of the reasons I voted with my feet and departed.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Nov, 2014 02:33 pm
@hawkeye10,
I gather that's a Palin quote. The scholarship is unmistakable.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Nov, 2014 02:35 pm
Actually, popped in to get in touch with Frank.

Jane and I will be in New York january 14 - 18. We're meeting Thomas but would really love to see as many old friends as possible. I think a serious dining and pub experience is mandatory seeing as how we're all going to be dead pretty soon.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 15 Nov, 2014 02:35 pm
@blatham,
Keep your delusions if you must

Quote:
WASHINGTON—The federal criminal code has grown so large it ensnares everyday citizens who have no idea they are violating the law, a bipartisan group of legal experts told a House panel Tuesday.

There are about 4,500 criminal statutes, said Edwin Meese, attorney general under President Ronald Reagan and now with the conservative Heritage Foundation. "This is in addition to over 300,000 other regulations that don't appear in the federal code but nevertheless carry essentially criminal penalties including prison," he said. "So the vast array of traps for the unwary that lurks out there in federal criminal law is more extensive than most people realize." The Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts figures some 80,000 defendants are sentenced in federal court each year.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970204336104577096852004601924
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Sat 15 Nov, 2014 03:06 pm
@hawkeye10,
So what? Laws and regulations accumulate. No kidding. Some are unnecessary. No kidding. Some outlive their usefulness. No kidding.

But what follows from this? That government is therefor illegitimate? That laws and regulations are logically illegitimate?

Are you going to suggest that Meese wants a lawless society? So give me a break and try to write something that makes a rational address to the situation rather than just a dumbass reactionary "government is oppressive and evil" thoughtless screed.

0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Nov, 2014 03:10 pm
Really ought to have noted, george, that the post above you responded to was tossed in simply because I'd wanted to point to the genius of Larry David as demonstrated by the Curb Your Enthusiasm project, and by that scene as a fine instance.

There's no script for this show's episodes. The actors arrive and have, at best, an outline of the situation. They wing it from there. How imaginatively and intelligently they all wing it utterly amazes me.

I wasn't really intending to pop in and slag movement conservatism. I just thought I'd toss that in for fun.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Sat 15 Nov, 2014 06:33 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:


If there is any single marker for this movement, it would be the notion that any form of governance other than what they espouse is axiomatically illegitimate. Liberalism is illegitimate. The Dem party is illegitimate. These folks do commonly believe that single party rule with them in charge is not merely desirable but necessary for the continuation of liberty and Americanness as they define it.

Something like it on the left? Liberals have or include different communities and traditions, of course. Differing notions of proper governance, of course. But over the last four or five decades, the left has not been marked by a passionate inside group dedicated to gaining power within the party and managing to do so, as is the case with movement conservatives. The closest analogy would be the emerging Bernie Sanders/Elizabeth Warren populist impulse.


I agree there are elements of what folks commonly call conservatism that fit your description. However, I don't know of any time over the past five decades in which they held any significant polical power. I also believe their counterparts on the left could fit the same descriptoir, though I suspect they would deny that.

I think the attributes you listed are fairly commonly seen by many, across the political spectrum, as applying to their political opponents, whomever they may be. Probably a little projection involved in that on both sides.

I believe the Democrats during the first two years of the current Administration, when they controlled the Presidency and both houses of Congress, behaved in a manner that came close to fitting your description. They voted in the key elements of their political agenda with zero accomodation with, or support from, Republicans. Evidence is also accumulating that suggests they exhibited considerable contempt for the intelligence and understanding of the electorate in the many deceptions implicit in the ACA and their statements in support of it.

I'll agree that Elizabeth Warren and perhaps Senator Bernie Sanders represent the extreme left wing of the party, and are more or less the counterpart of the tea party (though I suspect both would resent the comparison, based on their empty but lofty - and hypocritical - pretensions of superior intelligence and ability). Elizabeth is an unusually blonde Cherokee (albeit denied by the Cherokees themselves). She appears unashamed of her undeserved long term exploitation of a fictitious minority status, even as she loudly proclaims the social and economic game in this country is "rigged" in favor of a distant priviledged class.
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2014 01:29 pm
@georgeob1,
I'm sorry, george. I like you as a person but find political discussion with you fruitless. You default to a framing of equivalences almost always. That's not really thinking about subjects clearly. It's the avoidance of it. And that is now your third reference to Cherokee, as if that had relevance to anything of importance. Your second sentence below is directly contradicted by an admission you made to Jane and myself when we were still living in New York, so nearly a decade ago, that we had been correct in our claims that the religious right had gained too much power in your party. I wish things were otherwise, but they're aren't. But do understand I think you're a good guy.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2014 02:31 pm
@blatham,
The equivalences to which you repeatedly object arise from my observation that the human natures of large groups of people of any category, color, economic status or belief system don't vary by much. I don't find that remarkable or unusual at all. For me I find you a bit too willing to find bad intentions and conspiracy (as opposed to mere wrong headedness) in the nature of those who oppose your political views.

A decade ago I did believe the religious right had gained too much influence in the Republican Party. I still believe that. I also observe that this excess influence has faded markedly since then. I also believe that an occasionally anti religious element has too much influence in the Progressive wing of the Democrat Party - a degree of influence that wasn't as great a decade ago. Things change.

I've never even considered the possibility of converting you to a conservative political stance. However I have occasionally enjoyed challenging some of your assertions and the dialogues that have resulted. A result is I didn't consider the effort to be fruitless.

It's true I have made repeated references to Elizabeth Warren's phony claim to be Cherokee. I am pleased with the (perhaps tiresome) phrase "unusually blonde Cherokee" and do (probably too much) enjoy poking fun at her (obvious to me) hypocrisy. I react similarly to "movement conservatives".

You're a good guy too, but I think you may be a bit rigid and too unwilling to deal with disagreement, or at least are unwilling to do so in proportion to your willingness to find fault with your political opponents. It isn't a threat, after all.
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2014 03:22 pm
@blatham,

Quote:
Jane and I will be in New York january 14 - 18. We're meeting Thomas but would really love to see as many old friends as possible. I think a serious dining and pub experience is mandatory seeing as how we're all going to be dead pretty soon.


Well my goodness. I gatecrashed one of the last ones. I hope a successful and enjoyable gathering ensues.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2014 03:32 pm
@McTag,
McTag wrote:


Quote:
Jane and I will be in New York january 14 - 18. We're meeting Thomas but would really love to see as many old friends as possible. I think a serious dining and pub experience is mandatory seeing as how we're all going to be dead pretty soon.


Well my goodness. I gatecrashed one of the last ones. I hope a successful and enjoyable gathering ensues.


Yeah, I've got some pictures of that.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2014 02:58 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
The equivalences to which you repeatedly object arise from my observation that the human natures of large groups of people of any category, color, economic status or belief system don't vary by much. I don't find that remarkable or unusual at all.


No. Not exact enough. The National Socialists were not just another political party. South Africa did not descend into murder-the-whites chaos. Sarajevo, just after hosting the Olympics, fell into hell.

It can happen here. Bad ****, really bad ****, can happen in the US. Joe McCarthy thought so. Barry Goldwater thought so. The founders thought so. Mike Huckabee thinks so.

And so do I.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2014 03:02 pm
@McTag,
Quote:
Well my goodness. I gatecrashed one of the last ones. I hope a successful and enjoyable gathering ensues.


Thank you, Mc Tag. Have sincerely enjoyed time spent with you and your wife. Pass on my regards, please.

I have nothing but good thoughts about you guys. Unlike with, say, george. With george, I'm going to seduce all his female relatives, two times removed.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2014 03:23 pm
My Mennonite mother (and Mennonites are pacifists, of course) once said to me, "You know, the only facet of my life where I'm not a pacifist, is in the bedroom"

Of course, I told this to my analyst. He said, "What? Are you crazy or something? Grow up. We all have to do this. Our mothers were sluts. Get over it."
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2014 07:46 pm
@McTag,
Me too.
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2014 11:09 pm
@ossobuco,
Wow, what a thread. I too sometimes think we are all props, but for what I do not know.
 

Related Topics

Lola at the Coffee House - Question by Lola
JIM NABORS WAS GOY? - Question by farmerman
Adding Tags to Threads - Discussion by Brandon9000
LOST & MISPLACED A2K people. - Discussion by msolga
Merry Andrew - Discussion by edgarblythe
Spot the April Fools gag yet? - Discussion by Robert Gentel
Great New Look to A2K- Applause, Robert! - Discussion by Phoenix32890
Head count - Discussion by CalamityJane
New A2K feature requests. - Discussion by DrewDad
The great migration - Discussion by shewolfnm
 
  1. Forums
  2. » hello
  3. » Page 31
Copyright © 2020 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 08/12/2020 at 03:10:55